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Messages - 33d6

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British Bikes / Re: 2 & 3 speed 250cc gear boxes
« on: September 21, 2018, 09:42:15 AM »
Well, the top picture has the two speed gate change fitted to it. I have both 2 and 3 speed vintage bikes myself ( not BSA) so am fairly familiar with how they look.
These ordinary working man bikes donít exactly set the world on fire but they are such happy little beasts they are very satisfying to own.

British Bikes / Re: 2 & 3 speed 250cc gear boxes
« on: September 21, 2018, 05:39:50 AM »
You donít say what make of bike. I presume you mean BSA.

The Classic Biker Bar / Re: Needle in a Haystack?
« on: September 11, 2018, 03:31:18 AM »
Looked in the on line phone book which also has snail mail addresses. Lots of C Hutton but no C D Hutton. I'd suggest you do the same. Then pick out one Hutton from each State and send a letter. Repeat as necessary. Eventually you will strike a relative who will up date you.
 A simple one page three paragraph letter with your email address will do it.

This thread is going no where. As in all these cases can we just have the engine and frame numbers? That would resolve the matter very quickly.

The gearbox number would also be useful.


British Bikes / Re: 1931 James/villiers
« on: August 15, 2018, 01:32:15 AM »
Thanks for coming back and showing us the finished article on the road. For all the queries that are answered here we get very little in the way of feedback. It's good to see a bike come together and being ridden.

Now it's running so well can we now have a photo of it taken at Lands End or John'O'Groats? It's more than capable of getting you there and back.

British Bikes / Re: Villiers engine
« on: August 10, 2018, 12:46:29 AM »
Yes, as R says, a 123cc 9D Villiers for an Excelsior of the immediate postwar period 1946-48. You'll note the Excelsior has a hand gear change linkage that goes up through the tank and works in a slot in the middle of the tank. There's no particular advantage in this. It's merely a marketing gimmick so your 9D powered utility bike looks slightly different from what your neighbours are riding either side of you.
There was a 98cc version of this engine made pre war but they are easily distinguishable by their engine numbers starting either BB or BBA or BBS in the case of the Polish version made under licence from Villiers.
As you can gather I'm rather partial to these simple little workhorses. Sad isn't it but they make a pleasant change from the usual boring Triumph stuff.

British Bikes / Re: ES2 progress
« on: August 09, 2018, 02:09:04 PM »
Wow Ian! That would be the biggest silencer Iíve seen for many a year.

British Bikes / Re: Villiers Engine
« on: August 03, 2018, 11:55:57 AM »
The ďDĒ suffix denotes a revision of the crankcase seals arrangement on early 6E engines. Itís got nothing to do with gearboxes. It definitely has a 3 speed box as that was standard on all 6E. For that matter, once you have seen the 3 and 4 speed boxes side by side you will never confuse them again. It is very obvious.

British Bikes / Re: Villiers Engine
« on: August 03, 2018, 02:51:04 AM »
I'm sure you've already been told it is a bog standard 6E Villiers unit. This is a 3 speed 197cc beastie and was the largest motorcycle power unit they made at the time. Made from 1949-1953.

Yes, the first three digits, 996. do identify who the engine was made for but much of the records have been lost and 996 is among the lost.  The late Roy Bacon compiled the major list that most of us Villiers nuts refer to and I've amused myself adding to it over the years but 996 does not appear in either his or my listings.

From the point of view of operation and maintenance the number is irrelevant. There are minor difference between the first and last 6E as Villiers tweaked the design over the years but essentially all 6E's are the same regardless of what they were fitted to.

Spares are reasonably plentiful and luckily they are not an attractive engine to the pre-65 trial crowd so they aren't mauled about. They find the 3 speed gearbox a handicap. Personally I'd put it back in the Tiger Cub frame and use it as a neat little stylish road bike. The Tiger Cub was always a pretty little bike but with an engine not quite up to the job. The 6E is a very good unit but often ended up in some rather dull bikes. If done properly it'd be a very happy marriage and you can always truthfully tell the nutters that it is as you found it.

Let us know what you do.   

British Bikes / Re: 1952 Norton ES2 spark plug
« on: July 19, 2018, 02:08:17 AM »
In vintage times it was common practice to hide the spark plug in a deep hole away from the combustion chamber. As with every thing else back then spark plug technology was on its infancy and oil fouling was a problem. Plugs were positioned to avoid oil fouling and down a deep hole was a simple (and cheap) solution. Your ES2 engine was designed in the 1920's so is a relic from those days. Ride vintage bikes and you will often find spark plugs positioned thus and all working quite well. You can fit a long reach plug if you wish. Modern spark plugs are much improved over those from the 1920's It will make no discernible difference.

You've also received good advice about the timing. Personally I go along with Chaterlea25 I prefer his approach but that's just me.

Can we see a photo of the finished beast? I think the ES2 was at its peak in that plunger sprung frame era.  Lovely bike for just loping along at a steady 50-55mph. Like being on a steam train.

British Bikes / Re: A10 gear box problems
« on: June 26, 2018, 05:36:06 AM »
Excessive mainshaft end float allows the whole body of the clutch to move outwards when pulling in the clutch lever. This means the plates don't quite clear and everything drags a little. Neutral is then difficult to find.There may be just a  touch too much end play when everything warms up and expands after a run.


British Bikes / Re: veteran gearbox oil seal felt
« on: June 26, 2018, 04:39:53 AM »
Locally, industrial felt is made in three grades and your seal is made from the hardest. One glance at the others and you will understand why.
Unless you have a remarkably well equipped workshop don't think you can cut your own. It needs to be accurate or it will be no better than the one you remove.
In my own case the firm not only provided the material but cut it as well. Not cheap, but accurate. If the firm has a minimum charge for the job see how many you can get for the minimum charge and you then have a few extra to trade or sell.
You don't say which S/A box you are working on but Chaterlea25's suggestion is the way to go if at all possible.

Best of luck.

Identify these bikes! / Re: Any help with ID of this 1900's frame ?
« on: June 24, 2018, 03:04:37 AM »
I wince every time I see vertically coiled piping as used on that Buchet engine. My old apprentice master would have slowly chewed my ear off if i'd tried that on with him. Vertical coils are a disaster waiting to happen. Muck accumulates in the bottom of the coil and bubbles sit in the top creating a potential airlock hazard. It was horizontal coils only with him and coils much tighter than any text book said was possible and much tighter than on that engine.
I'm still useless at making up oil and fuel lines to his standard but after sixty years his very clear instructions and his godawful pipe are very clear in the memory.


I think you're right Per. It's mostly a bike built up of proprietary items. Most are a reasonable price. An Albion gearbox for example, won't break the bank. British Hub wheels are fairly easy to find.  The killer is the JAP engine. Even the cooking 250 ohv as used here is in high demand.  Nevertheless it is eminently do able and the joy of a Montgomery is that no one quite knows what is correct or not. From looking at the Montgomery in my shed its fairly obvious they were a small firm who used whatever was available. Some parts are very good, some are quite agricultural.

As far as the frame number is concerned the VMCC Register lists three Montgomery similar to yours. A 1936 model. frame number 92**. A 1937 with frame number 93** and 1939 with 95**. My entirely different 123cc Villiers powered 1939 model has a frame number starting 10***. I suspect Montgomery was so tiny they used the one set of numbers for all machines regardless of what model it was. Whatever they built that day got stamped with the next available number. The VMCC Marque specialist should be able to accurately date it for you.

Tanks aren't that expensive to have made. It's not the drama you may think. It's not as if it's a Brough or Vincent where every man and his dog will look at it and have an opinion. As long as it looks broadly like the catalogue picture, fits neatly and the handlebars don't hit it no one will know if it's slightly out here or there. If it looks right it is right.

Copies of catalogues are available from both BMS and the VMCC Library. Tank transfers are available.

It would be an attractive and smart little bike


British Bikes / Re: Villiers Middleweight Carb Wanted
« on: June 15, 2018, 03:27:27 AM »
Hi Mike,
Again, looking at Cov/Eagle loterature it appears that what Cov/Eagle did was install a left hand Villiers weak/rich lever just by the twist grip so the operator needed to push it forward to operate it.These are easy enough to find as they were used on a gazillion lawnmowers in their day. Of course the lawnmower nutters are just as bad as us so there will be someone local to you who can help.. It's just a bit undignified if it's stamped "Atco".
If you're desperate Villiers Services should be able to provide the 6E version but it looks a bit modern for a 30's bike.

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