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Messages - 33d6

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1
British Bikes / Re: Excelsior Plunger frame ID
« on: April 18, 2021, 11:54:36 PM »
Delon, itís an absolutely correct number identifying a 1950 Excelsior 125cc Universal.
Excelsior frames of the period all look the same but there are minute differences between them that drive you nuts. They either improved them slightly from year to year or there are slight differences to accommodate the various engines. At that time Excelsior used both their own make and Villiers engines all of varying capacities. Plus of course, this is the time when they introduced their own 250cc twin two stroke power unit. The Villiers powered variants are the most common survivors by far.
Have fun,

2
British Bikes / Re: Engine ID
« on: April 06, 2021, 02:26:42 PM »
Only one suggestion. Many of those Coventry Eagle models have a cast aluminium silencer which can require some effort to get right. The common trick is to make up a set of the Cov Eagle optional Ďsportingí high set pipes and avoid the cast aluminium silencer.
This is sad because firstly those Ďsportingí pipes tend to be rather inconvenient in use and secondly they tended to reduce performance rather than enhance it. A cast aluminium silencer is better in all respects.
Hopefully you will go down the trickier but better cast aluminium  silencer route.
Best of luck.

3
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: April 06, 2021, 02:02:34 PM »
Sorry Leon, youíve now got all I got. Iím just pleased you told us about E.T.Fisher. Were they not Levis agents as well?

As far as further info from the AOMC goes I am will have to tackle them about  general research rather than specific information about my personal machine. I really need a specific research proposal that I can approach them with. What exactly is it that you and Rob are up to?

4
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: April 06, 2021, 02:17:52 AM »
Iíve now received the formal reply to my AOMC Montgomery/Utility search. It adds a little more info to the first, informal phone call.
Although now definitely a 1939 Montgomery (1939 is UKVMCC confirmed) its first registration was January 1941. Why so big a gap Iíve no idea. WWII was well underway by then so whether that held up shipping it out or people stopped buying for awhile when war was declared or whatever I donít know. Itís just another piece of the jigsaw. All I know is the date it was registered, what rego number it was issued with for it to then disappear from view until I got the hideous remains a lifetime later. I can track the remains back a few owners so I might try and back track a little further.
I do know what it is, I do have concrete evidence of it entering the Victorian registration bureaucracy so I know it is lifelong Victorian machine.
AOMC also advised they have some 75 or so Montgomery in the engine number records so not a big seller under their own name. I suppose Iíll now have to find out who the local agent was.
All this fora very ordinary little bike. But a bike with a local story which makes it so much more interesting.

5
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: April 03, 2021, 07:35:41 AM »
Youíve got to watch how Montgomery used Terrier as a model name. They seemed to use it in a generic fashion with anything 350cc and under being a Terrier.
I have a copy of their 1936 catalogue with the top of the range 500cc models being Greyhounds and all else referred to as Terriers. Very confusing.

6
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: April 01, 2021, 12:49:27 AM »
You're so right Rex.
Anyway, Montgomery/Utiliity update. Had a preliminary phone call this morning with printed confirmation to come.
My 1939 Montgomery is just that and not a Utility. On top of that, there were NO 9D powered 125cc Utility. The 9D powered Montgomery wasn't sold as a Utility. There are none in the AOMC records. The smallest Utility recorded were powered by the 148cc Mk12C, engine prefix GY.
Montgomery did sell bikes powered by this engine in the early thirties but I have limited Montgomery information and don't know exactly what years these were. Nor do I yet know what years these particular Utility are. I only know they exist.
I was also interested to learn that AOMC have roughly some 300 Utility on record.  I don't know whether they were only sold out of their Melbourne shop and this is all of them or whether some were sent interstate for sale elsewhere. Perhaps Leon can tell us if Utility were sold in SA?
So, as usual, getting some answers invariably leads to more questions and we still don't have absolutely concrete information on the Montgomery/ Utility tie up. Known but not proven yer'Onor.
Hopefully though, I have opened the door a crack to the AOMC records.

7
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: March 31, 2021, 01:39:01 PM »
I think we keep forgetting that like the whole automotive industry, no one knew the rego system would grow like crazy as more and more vehicles came on the road.
I think the admin system was often playing catch up as things just grew and grew hence the sometimes messy paperwork. And in the early days clerks were entering stuff they really didnít know much about.
Certainly it was regularly revised and upgraded in trying to keep up but rarely ever got better than the bare minimum needed to operate.
Entertaining isnít it.

8
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: March 31, 2021, 08:02:57 AM »
Ha! You are learning the practicalities of registering your motorcycle in country towns in the so called good old days. Easy peasy now with wham, bam thank you ma'am, computerisation and God Wot but a little bit of forethought needed back then.
The Victorian way was for each country police station to keep a bundle of numberplates on hand ready to issue. No writing to town required, no re-issue of previous numbers allowed. (Note for our UK readers. The authorities want you to display a numberplate? Certain size, certain colour and so forth? Then they better supply'em----and they did.)
In my own case I rode my unregistered ex WD M20 BSA down to the local cop shop, got it registered, a pair of numberplates was given me for later attachment (BK520, strange how you remember these things) and I then took my licence test on it. From unregistered, uninsured with unlicenced rider to all legal on the road in one stop at the local cop shop, no questions asked.

9
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: March 31, 2021, 04:01:43 AM »
Surprise, surprise, that Francis Barnett does actually have ďsprungĒ forks. There is a block of rubber at the bottom of the head stem which I assume gave some degree of  fork movement as you bounced through the bomb craters.
Those original blocks of rubber have long since gone to God. They have either collapsed or gone rock hard so few current riders have any idea of their effectiveness. I have no idea whether replacements are available and even if they were who would know if they properly reflect the original action.
Not that I have the remotest interest in finding out. Past expeditions on my mates New Hudson have completely cured me of any desire to own an autocycle.

On other matters I am still awaiting an answer on the Montgomery/ Utility question from the AOMC. They do warn it can take some time. Unfortunately Cardan has now added a further question  only the AOMC can answer. What do they have on the Barb?

10
British Bikes / Re: Villiers 196 super sports
« on: March 27, 2021, 10:43:15 PM »
Yes.
That said, the engine is at least 80 years old and most likely has been mauled about by a succession of enthusiastic owners so the surface of the head isnít as good as it should be.
It would probably benefit from a light skim to clean it up before you start. As may the cylinder itself.
Villiers heads are so small they are easy to hold in a lathe. Years ago I made up a fixture to do so.
The fixture is very simple consisting of a circular base plate four spacers and four masonry anchors. Works for me.


11
British Bikes / Re: Engine ID
« on: March 25, 2021, 10:17:17 PM »
Good. Youíve now learned lesson number one. Never trust a logbook. Always check the numbers on the engine as well.
You can now have a lovely time getting some clerk somewhere to correct the mistake. This is possibly the most exciting part of a restorationóónot.

12
British Bikes / Re: Engine ID
« on: March 25, 2021, 01:14:41 PM »
Have another look. Prefix AXF is used on the 1934-40 250cc Mk16A but AX… is not used on any Villiers motorcycle engine.
Donít know about Villiers industrial engines.

13
British Bikes / Re: TRYING TO IDENTIFY MY GRANDFATHERS MOTORBIKE
« on: March 25, 2021, 12:04:29 AM »
Where is the sidecar? It adds even more style to what is already a lovely bike.
Any one can have a lovely bike but a lovely bike with an impossibly smart sporting sidecar as shown in your first set of photos is lifted in to a class of its own.

14
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: March 20, 2021, 03:27:20 AM »
Difficult to tell, Leon. Montgomery seemd to change the specification at the drop of a hat.I suspect it was a case of fit whatever they could get for a good price. Certainly by the late thirties they were fitting pressed steel forks and tube type girders to both their 250 and 350 models. The standard model of both got pressed steel and the de luxe model tube type. The 500 seemed to get tube type on both standard and de luxe. So those bikes could be of any capacity but I assume either 350 or 500. They seem a little too hefty for a 250.
Then again they used some components across the range. For example the rear wheel mounted in the same fork lug on everything throughout the range. It does look a little overdone on my little beast. Not only that the lug had a protrusion each side for the chain adjuster. They just bashed the unwanted protrusion off to majke it either a left hand or right hand lug. They did not clean off the remains.
In close up the Montgomery is not elegant!!

15
British Bikes / Re: Junkyard Villiers find - Waratah history
« on: March 17, 2021, 12:38:48 PM »
New Hudson. The BSA equivalent of the Gloria. What was it about BSA and Triumph that they wouldnít sell a Villiers powered machine under their own name. I suppose it was because neither ever managed to build a successful two-stroke of their own but had to use the designs of others.


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