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Messages - 33d6

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1
British Bikes / Re: Information about a Norman Rambler?
« on: March 21, 2024, 02:38:55 AM »
Norman fork’s range from the sublime to the gorblimey, but all present unusual problems to the modern restorer.
Norman first discarded girders to make their own forks in the late 40’s. This was the period when Britain had cleaned up after WWII and everything had to be new and fresh. Girders were out and télés were in except few designers actually had any idea of how they worked.
The Norman concept had a quantity of oil held in the top of the teles above the seals where it would magically provide some sort of damping action. They further provided a balance tube on the top yoke connecting each leg so oil could move itself from leg to leg to balance out the action. The Owners Manual carefully advises that a quarter pint of engine oil only needs to be poured in one leg for successful operation. Further to this they fitted grease nipples to lubricate the bushes and advised they should be oiled (not greased)every 200 miles.
In service the oil soon found its way past the seals to fill up the void below. Needless to say no drain plug was provided so the oil just accumulated and steadily reduced the fork action as it did so. The only way you find out why your forks don’t work is to pull them apart and find the accumulated mess. Luckily, having a fairly extensive library I found various illustrations in Show magazines of the day that helped a lot.
To be fair Norman realised this quite quickly removing the balance tube and revising the Owners Manual to just providing enough oil to lubricate the internals and no more. Problem solved——-not.
Unfortunately the most easily available Owners Manual is the early version without the fork revisions and you don’t even know the revisions exist until a friend chances on a later copy in an op shop. Needless to say Norman didn’t reprint the Manual but merely printed the revised instructions on a slip of paper and glued it over the top of the original. Using a minute blob of glue of course so you can flip back and forth to see both.
After a few years Norman dropped their own make forks and fitted early undamped MP (Metal Precision) forks. Neither better nor worse than their own I think it was just cheaper and easier to buy in forks than develop their own.
Early MP forks are what current riders call “upside down ‘ forks with the slider working up and down inside a bushed outer shroud. When the fork bushes are worn out the sliders will have twice the wear and also need replacing. Essentially rather than being the wearing part the bushes act as laps. Road grit and the like embeds itself in the bushes then wears away the sliders much more effectively than it does the bushes. As there are no spare’s available rebuilding early MP forks requires pretty good machine shop facilities. And I’m not even mentioning the basic design that makes disassembly without damage a nightmare.
Finally Norman fitted Armstrong leading link forks. Bang up to date and as good a lightweight fork as you could get at the time. Pity Armstrong disappeared from the game. Rebuilding a set of Armstrong’s will lead down many rabbit holes and expenditure. Even worse if they are bent. But a late model Norman twin is a very pretty bike and rides as well as it looks.
So there you are, get yourself a classic Norman and you will have a bike where the front end restoration may take as much effort as the rest of the bike.

2
British Bikes / Re: Information about a Norman Rambler?
« on: March 18, 2024, 04:58:20 AM »
I’m pretty sure it’s from 1954 Leon. That was their first year of what we would regard as a normal swing arm rear end. For the previous five years or so Norman/Roamer/Rambler had tried to develop their own Tele forks and rear suspension without success. 1954 saw a regular swing arm with bought in suspension units and bought in  early MP (Metal Precision) front forks which were better than Normans own but had their own built in problems that didn’t come to light until rebuilding was necessary.
Finally they fitted those very pretty Armstrong leading link forks that more or less saw them out.
Normans made some very stylish lightweights in the 1950’s. All with front suspension’s that can make a grown man weep. Ask me how I know.

3
British Bikes / Re: Albion EJ Final drive sprocket 17T
« on: February 14, 2024, 11:55:27 PM »
Unless you enquire you’ll never know how much spline cutting would cost. Again, it depends on the capability of the machine shop in question.
As for one-offs it is common practice for a business to have a minimum price for any job. If so I ask how many items I would get for that price. I might only want one but if I can get more for the same price I both have a spare plus others to sell/trade/barter so as to offset my costs. It’s amazing how people pop out of the woodwork when they find out you have this stuff.
You have to stop thinking like a hobbyist and start thinking like a business owner.

4
British Bikes / Re: Albion EJ Final drive sprocket 17T
« on: February 14, 2024, 09:45:10 PM »
Given that I have been having various sprockets made in various numbers over a twenty year period it’s only possible to say the price is reasonable.
There is no ballpark figure as there are too many variables between individual circumstances. We don’t even know what country the enquirer lives in. All we know is that there will be an industrial transmission place not too far away and they can solve his problem.
I can also say it’s not worth the bother of trying to adapt sprockets from other applications. New sprocket blanks are heat treated to leave the centres machinable. Fully formed sprockets such as yours are usually heat treated throughout and a pig to machine. There is no saving in going down that track.
Having stuff made is a business proposition. It has to be reasonable for both sides. No business can make things at a loss nor can they be too expensive as that drives customers away. For repeat business both sides have to walk away happy.

5
British Bikes / Re: Albion EJ Final drive sprocket 17T
« on: February 14, 2024, 04:23:00 AM »
I’m quite familiar with the EJ box. Albion boxes are common in the type of bike I favour.
Sprockets are not a problem. I have mine made. I enquired at an industrial transmission place who directed me to the machine shop that made their sprockets. Easy as that.
Sprocket blanks come as either “flat plate” or with a central boss. How the job is addressed depends upon the capabilities of the machine shop in question.
Take both your sample sprocket and the sleeve gear it fits on when you make your enquiries. Be organised and prepared to make a decision on the spot. Most firms dislike dealing with the average motorcyclist. They dither and moan and always cry poor. Be businesslike. We could start a whole new thread on why businesses can’t be bothered dealing with motorcyclists. They are their own worst enemy.
Tell us how you get on.

6
British Bikes / Re: royal enfield 355 1929
« on: February 05, 2024, 07:01:26 AM »
I would be giving the ignition system a closer look. The old remark about so many fuel problems being ignition has a lot of truth.
You wrote earlier the bike has been off the road for 40 years, old electric equipment doesn’t age well. To me it is all suspect , magneto, HT lead, etc, etc. You also wrote you had set it to fire about tdc. I think that’s far too late. Somewhere about 3/8” at full advance is a better starting point.
Resurrecting an old beast can be a quite an exercise as you are finding out. But satisfying.

7
British Bikes / Re: 1950s Francis Barnett
« on: February 03, 2024, 05:54:51 AM »
As with most postwar Villiers engines there are two wiring diagrams available. One the “rectifier” diagram that provides for charging a battery and thus having a steady lighting plus a stop/brake light. The second the el cheapo “direct” no battery lighting system where the degree of lighting available rises and falls with the engine revs and fitting a stop light requires a bit more shenanigans.
Both are archaic and my electronic engineer nephew positively gurgled with horror when first I showed the two options to him. Most people find it no great drama to update and vastly improve Villiers electrics using modern electronic components.
Francis Barnett used these same Villiers diagrams. There is no special Francis Barnett wiring drawing. Both Villiers Mk 30C Operators Instructions and the Francis Barnett Plover Owners instructions are cheaply available from multiple sources, I’d suggest Villers Services for the engine as you’ll be bound to use them sooner or later for bits and bobs and the UK National Motorcycle Museum for the Fanny Bee handbook. The NMM are very handy for overseas buyers as they will send an electronic download. You’re not waiting weeks for a book coming through the post.
Best of luck.

8
British Bikes / Re: 1950s Francis Barnett
« on: February 02, 2024, 09:36:31 PM »
We diverge a little. The engine number remains a mystery. It looks like a 30C in the photo but the number given doesn’t.
Villiers advise the 30C number is found on the front engine lug. I expect it to be in two lines one above the other and if the original engine for it to commence 295B. I’ve never seen an original Villiers number just as a row of numbers.
It can be an awkward place to look and the numbers are sometimes faint. It can take some effort and is one of the reasons I don’t like photos of them.

9
British Bikes / Re: 1950s Francis Barnett
« on: February 02, 2024, 09:10:37 AM »
Ages ago I also bought a 250 BSA, but from a deceased estate clear out, a 1930 model. Much later I had a policeman turn up saying it was reported stolen back in the 1940’s! Eventually I was allowed to keep it because the police couldn’t find any of the parties involved still alive. All they could find was evidence the deceased estate had taken it in as a trade in. All pre computer of course. Finally they said I could keep it but I was left hanging for a few months and couldn’t do anything with it.
I got the message though that my ownership would always be a bit vague so not a happy camper.

10
British Bikes / Re: 1950s Francis Barnett
« on: February 02, 2024, 06:29:33 AM »
Yes a full photo might help a bit but isn’t definitive. If the owner wants to legally put the bike on the road the NZ authorities will want the numbers, not a photo. Those numbers are the bikes legal identity. They not only identify what it is, they identify the legal owner. Just because you’ve bought a bike and have a receipt doesn’t necessarily make you the legal owner.Was the seller legally entitled to sell it?
Many people don’t take them seriously but getting them wrong can cause much frustration and a pain in the pocket.
Much more practical (and cheaper) to get them right first off.
Sorry to be boring about it but that’s how it is.

11
British Bikes / Re: 1950s Francis Barnett
« on: February 01, 2024, 10:16:19 PM »
Photos don’t really help. They are never as clear as looking with the No1 eyeball. Hence the suggestion to give the bike a really good clean and LOOK.
YY wouldn’t surprise me. I’m in Oz and I’m fairly cynical about the Poms sending not quite right bikes overseas where complaining is useless. Someone doing a whoopsie and stamping the Y twice wouldn’t surprise me.
Villiers used a three number followed by a letter identification prefix before the individual number for that engine, so you would see something like 123A 1234. In your case, if it is the original engine I would expect it to start 295B.
Eventually Villiers affixed an identity plate which says what type of engine is fitted which sorted out the whole issue anyway but with an old bike all sorts of things can happen over its lifetime so initially things can be a bit of a mystery.

12
British Bikes / Re: 1950s Francis Barnett
« on: February 01, 2024, 01:15:41 AM »
The first Y in the frame number shows it to be from 1957 but there is no YY. A single Y, yes plus YC, YM, YB plus YTM and YSM but no YY.
Your engine number is not quite right either.
If you give the bike a really good clean and look closely you should be able to pick the numbers out a little better. They can often be awkward to read.
Do not trust any paperwork numbers.
No trouble identifying it with the right numbers.

13
British Bikes / Re: BSA C15 mainshaft bush. Phosphor Bronze OK or not?
« on: January 24, 2024, 12:28:18 AM »
In principle, no problem. Many motorcycle engines have had phosphor bronze main bearings. Of far greater concern is accurate alignment with the drive side bearings.
You hint at worn bearing housings. They must be rectified and correctly aligned first. Making an oversize bush and bashing it in a worn housing is a recipe for disaster.
The better you do the job the better the result.

Best of luck.

14
British Bikes / Re: 1920s/30s carbs
« on: January 14, 2024, 12:45:06 AM »
According to their literature Amal didn’t approve of using a clip fitting to attach their carbs as they believed them prone to air leaks.
As Villiers used nothing but a clip fitting on their motorcycle carbs I’m inclined to understand why, particularly on aluminium inlet manifolds. Routine carb removal for maintenance wears away the aluminium surprisingly quickly. Eventually they changed to bronze manifolds.
It’s weird the odd trivia you learn when you play with old bikes isn’t it.

15
British Bikes / Re: Ambassador Series 1
« on: January 11, 2024, 10:10:19 AM »
I confess I rarely buy new books. I tend to haunt the abebook second hand book site where I can email the seller with enquires before I commit myself.
I never buy off eBay. In my view that’s where the junk tatty copies are sold.
You get a proper description of your prospective buy on abebooks.
He doesn’t know it but Mick is quite honoured that I happily paid for a new copy of his “ Guide to Ambassadors “. Couldn’t wait for it to appear on abebooks.

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