Author Topic: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!  (Read 23553 times)

johnnyboy-wonder57

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A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« on: June 20, 2012, 08:28:59 PM »

A cautionary tale
, when motorcycles represent large wads of cash!
Follow link@
http://johnlumleyaffair.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/voc-how-things-used-to-be.html#comment-form

Philips x 2, Vincent & Irving would be alarmed by this I'm sure.


Owner's Clubs beware!

Cheers

JBW

Offline Mr B

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 09:58:35 PM »
Fascinating reading, but why aren't they in jail?

wetdog

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 10:17:40 PM »
could be a way of trying to avoid death dutys , has been done before and the truth may drop someone right in it

Offline Rex

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 11:27:17 PM »
Nope, they thieved the dead bloke's bikes before probate was granted. A crime in more ways than one.

Offline rogerwilko

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 12:32:22 AM »
Who cares? Bunch of arrogant tossers anyway! Nothing to do with my world.

wetdog

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 07:26:36 AM »
"before probate" that sounds right to me if your trying to avoid this duty , i think relatives may be behind this or know a bit more , but as the last post im not really that interested , but i will make sure i do not own anything when i go , that includes M/C property etc , ive payed tax already on these items and will make sure i dont leave my family will a large bill , its easy to do but needs to be done well in advance (years infact)

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 08:43:52 AM »

I knew three blokes who owned Vincent's & not one of them could be described as an arrogant tosser!
I would love to be a Vincent tosser, maybe Roger could design a tasteful motive for my helmet!
OK, it was 30 years ago, but I think Roger that's a bit of a sweeping statement & the  a similar thing has happened to the AJS/Matchless Owners Club in the UK * I have evidence to prove it when an  83 year old friend was conned by Kettering Classic  Motorcycles in 2009 who were running the spares scheme, but I think its all been hushed up to save face!


Cheers


JBW



wetdog

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 08:55:03 AM »
do you mean conned as they bought all his spares etc at a bargain price ? or was it theft , i was a member of the ajs club and it seamed OK , but i still say the Panther club is the best by far , very down to earth straight members , this may have something to do with the value of the machines , when ever high value and money get involved things seam to go bad

Offline Rex

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 10:16:24 AM »
author=wetdog link=topic=4261.msg15627#msg15627 date=1340259996]
"before probate" that sounds right to me if your trying to avoid this duty ,


No expert by any means, but having gone through the probate process twice now I'm pretty sure that if you "remove" items etc from the deceased's estate before probate is granted you're guilty of deception etc at the very least, but in this case (as I've read in other accounts) the vultures did the old "he always promised me that Black Shadow" and stole it all before the inventory could be made. So they stole it from the dead bloke's estate (which is wrong) and removed it before the possible death duties were paid (also wrong). Whether it's "right" or even "interesting" is neither here nor there, but I wouldn't be too pleased if the Baron Tosspot de Smallcock secreted all his Vermeers and Matisses away to avoid death duties so why should this bloke (if that was the case?)

wetdog

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 01:27:42 PM »
said like a true polition or tax man , death duty is set to low and its not the fault of the occupant of a property they bought for 17,000 which is now worth £400,000 so leaving there relatives with the bill (before you add on that old bugatti in the shed) , your baron smallcock is already doing this via his trust funds (no fool)  , problem here is joe public dont get it together in time or know they can do the same , the reson this has gone sour is someones got scared as it was not done over the correct time period and there way out has been to shout theft , there will be no conviction over this matter because there was no theft (the taxman may disagree) . Im sorry to here of your dutys twice you shold have looked into it in advance

Offline Rex

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 05:51:35 PM »
Neither a taxman or politico, but I believe in paying my way and that others should too. Tax avoidance/reduction is one thing, but blatant tax evasion is for the scum of society whether they be rich or poor.
Incidentally I didn't need to pay any death duties in either probate hearing as my old Dad, and then my Mum, never had anything more than the three-bed semi they sweated for for most of their lives and that was under the tax threshold, so no bitterness there.

wetdog

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 07:18:49 PM »
sorry to hear your parents didant do to well despite there efforts , if they had you maybe able to see the other side , which is after paying the tax on the money in order to purchace these items why should i or my family pay again when i dye ? if you have any family think of the debt you maybe leaving them with , i have done OK and have had to work hard for it and will make sure i dont own anything when they nail the lid down .

Offline Rex

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 10:22:38 PM »
if they had you maybe able to see the other side , which is after paying the tax on the money in order to purchace these items why should i or my family pay again when i dye

Why? Because that's the society we live in, and the tax framework and laws we (hopefully) abide by. Choosing to abide or not abide by certain rules is no more than anarchy.
Doesn't say much for 21st century civilisation  if personal morality and ethos has progressed  little more than that of the Pikies and travellers.

wetdog

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 07:09:22 AM »
your a fool , the very same people telling you to pay are not paying it them selfs , i understand your norms and mores statement but open your eyes , this tax is wronge

johnnyboy-wonder57

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Re: A cautionary tale VOC debacle!
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 08:56:23 AM »
In 2009. they,(Kettering Classic Motorcycles), took one complete bike & one bike stripped down plus a substantial amount of spares, he only phoned up for a quote on value & they turned up the next day with a van & cleared out his garage, he thought he had a cancer & had panicked & they I believe  they preyed on hie vulnerability, he was in his 80s, they also tried to charge him £100 transport costs as they took his bikes & spares away, he refused to pay this fee.

They agreed a price, I believe it was too low, £200 less than £2,000 & then on the back of  "Jampot", they advertised one machine above the value they gave him for the lot, they later dropped the price of this machine slightly.  But , the worst thing was it took them over a year to send him the money, they had agreed to pay him in the first place, I sent them an email on his behalf they never got back to me, to the AJS & MOC, so I told him I would go up there with support & bring the machines back & contact the Police, we agreed a set date, one week before the set deadline, we had agreed with each other, they weirdly paid up, they must have had Mystic Meg in their workshop with her crystal ball!

The point that peed me off was that it caused him stress & if he had have died in the meantime then what then?  I believe the AJS & Matchless Owner's Club are also £37000 down, by their own admission, in their accounts through some dishonest activity by some individuals, but I do not know who is responsible for this misdemeanor, they have now restructured their Committee & set-up!

Whoever was running KCM @ that time 2009, was not acting in my opinion, in a fair and ethical way!  Guys do not fall out over taxhave you never wondered how the rich seem to keep their wealth whilst those trying to amass it seem to get knocked back down through tax laws  & adherence to them?
You pay tax when you earn, you pay tax & duty on many things that you buy some of which are essential, some foods & petrol! VAT finds it way on to almost everything, because its on goods @ the clever bit, SERVICES & death duties, well maybe its the allowances that are screwed up but I think this particular  angle is often less than ethical, plus you have only to consider our own MP's expenses scandal, to comfort yourselves that the right people are running the country, making the right decisions && all is tickety- boo!

I can see both points of view, I personally think we in Blighty are taxed to death, so come on guys shelve your differences & lets enjoy some banter, you both have many valid points to make & knowledge to share.

I heard of other businesses taking peoples bike collections selling them & not either informing them of the sales or not bothering to pay up, when they should have, a Lancashire firm near Blackburn was guilty of this.  Then there are relatives putting pressure on Dad or Uncle or Grandad to sell whilst prices are high & maybe they do not want too & still get some joy polishes their beloved Cleethorpes 350cc V4 machine.

"Where there's brass there's muck", should be rewritten as "where there's brass there's, lies, cheating, skull-duggery, theft, deceit & on occasion honesty & trust".



But hey, this is what happens when things get too precious, makes me think of Gollum's, dilemma!

Cheers

JBW