Author Topic: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!  (Read 16289 times)

johnnyboy-wonder57

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 09:41:33 AM »
Rex,
 I rather have my views, which incidentally, I feel,  are not as extreme as you paint.  I do not know of any DR.Evil, but I do know that usually, at every possible opportunity, you try & link & weave your Xenophobic views on race or other Countries into topics, implicating individuals with brown, tan or other  language speakers even those with white coloured faces, where I link, World Governance, Politicians & Local Councils for some of the ills, re-Transport policies of which motorcycles form a part, do they not, albeit British Bikes a smaller & smaller fraction, as they make the transition to economic investment & deified status.

I prefer instead to avoid the judgements, manipulations & propaganda used, in the past & now, to justify the vilification & possible extermination of others in tempestuous times of severe economic depression.  I do not agree surprisingly, (I hear you say), with everything that has been done in the UK, re-immigration over the Post War period, but as you say the "Things change, peoples' interests change and industry changes,".  The big difference is policies I believe to be most at fault,  rather than blindly blaming slightly different individuals.

Your right Rex, this Site is about British Bikes, in view of this observation, that makes me & you no different then, in espousing slightly wider viewpoints.

I do not mind people disagreeing with me, but I do mind the way it is done.  I started to notice a pick-iness  & aggressiveness in your posts, especially this one, lets say an attack,  not backed up by reasonable assertions, well, I'm sorry to disappoint Rex, but I won't be bullied off the site by you & yet when it comes to doing something constructive about rogue dealers & inferior products being sold to like-minded punters, restoring & purchasing motorcycles,  you shy away, no forthright opinions here I note, that you want to be directly connected with.


The Main issue: The J.A.P Engine:

I like the look of the J.A.P engine pictures, & I wondered about  the absence of a rocker box , presumably,  this would enhance wear & tear on the valve gear & further engine wear would be accelerated by oil contamination with grit .


However, & I may be wrong  (& I can see that in Sprinters, maybe the absence of a Rocker box would not be too much of a problem due to the  specialist short term use);  but road going models, surely, would have needed protection by Rocker Boxes, later on in their development to cut down on wear & tear & I thought I have seen them sporting rocker boxes  in historic displays.

Am I right or am I thinking of another engine?


Cheers


JBW

Offline Rex

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1509
  • Karma: +11/-69
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 03:23:53 PM »

 I rather have my views, which incidentally, I feel,  are not as extreme as you paint.  I do not know of any DR.Evil, but I do know that usually, at every possible opportunity, you try & link & weave your Xenophobic views on race or other Countries into topics, implicating individuals with brown, tan or other  language speakers even those with white coloured faces, where I link, World Governance, Politicians & Local Councils for some of the ills, re-Transport policies of which motor

JBW your posts are becoming ever more fanciful and bizarre. Please consider what you're posting before posting it and save yourself the embarrassment of such wild allegations.


when it comes to doing something constructive about rogue dealers & inferior products being sold to like-minded punters, restoring & purchasing motorcycles,  you shy away, no forthright opinions here I note, that you want to be directly connected with.

I've already made the point that making such a list would both leave the list owner open to litigation, and be unfair to the sellers, who'd have no right of reply. Instead of fretting over what I think about the idea why not email the list owner and ask his views on it?
If it's such a big deal for you then start your own site complete with such a list?



wetdog

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 05:10:42 PM »
"accelerated by oil contamination with grit "  ............ this is true there is a ware issue here , you do know that these v twins (the ones i have ) run a total loss system , the oil is regulated from inside the car and is the passengers job , someone to blame when it goes bang  :D

Offline chaterlea25

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
  • Karma: +14/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 08:01:28 PM »
Hi JBW,
Quote
However, & I may be wrong  (& I can see that in Sprinters, maybe the absence of a Rocker box would not be too much of a problem due to the  specialist short term use);  but road going models, surely, would have needed protection by Rocker Boxes, later on in their development to cut down on wear & tear & I thought I have seen them sporting rocker boxes  in historic displays.

Am I right or am I thinking of another engine?

Yes you are correct, the speedway engines and some road engines were and can be fitted with valve covers
A tin cup sits under the valve spring and a two piece alloy casting  clamps around the alloy rockerbox where the rocker exits to operate the valve
See here
http://www.500race.org/Marques/JAP.htm

Cheers
John

johnnyboy-wonder57

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 09:15:03 PM »
chaterlea25
Cheers for that, I have a mate with an International with exposed valves & I remember seeing footage of piston-engined aircraft in the older days with exposed valves, I know it aids cooling, but contamination would be a big problem too.

wetdog, total-loss system, is that applicable to all these engines then?

Rex, I will check out Consumer Rights &  the Trade Descriptions Act e.t.c. I think you will find  the Laws for he consumer are stronger than you may think!

Cheers

JBW

wetdog

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 07:36:21 AM »
(the ones i have )

johnnyboy-wonder57

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 11:45:08 PM »
Hi!
Now, what happened to this baby, I didn't know J.A.P had built a 4-cylinder unit!

Love the advert!

Cheers for the link Chaterlea25 very interesting!

Cheers

JBW
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 11:46:57 PM by Johnnyboy-wonder »

wetdog

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2013, 09:18:54 AM »
jap built v eights in the early 1900s , they where enginners

johnnyboy-wonder57

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 09:55:26 AM »
wetdog,
Glad to hear it, why did they not market the engine, (modified), to Norton/BSA someone, then for racing?

Rather than the probably costly to develop B.R.M effort, or as an additional choice.

They, Norton, desperately needed a 4, even if they didn't admit, realise it at the time.


Geoff Duke warned them of complacency!

Cheers

JBW


wetdog

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 11:39:35 AM »
to big i guess (like the straight 3) they went down the v twin route and this was used by most for bikes ,planes , industry etc

Offline R

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1475
  • Karma: +26/-10
    • View Profile
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 10:22:07 PM »
What a marvellous engine that JAP4 looks to be.
Just what Nortons were dreaming of, as someone said.
Shame nothing came of it ?

JAP v-twins were about gone by then.
Postwar, the new design 1000cc ohv wasn't taken up by anyone.
Only a few speedway merchants still used the v-twin racing engines....

johnnyboy-wonder57

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2013, 09:10:17 AM »
R,
 One additional effect, (as well as restrictions & material shortages), after the War on manufacturers could have been the surplus of W.D equipment, that was pressed into Civilian service, affecting equipment/engine manufacturer's in particular, cheap options were needed to get things rolling again!

Even now in Kent, there's always talk of the chalk tunnels being filled with USA army surplus stuff, trouble is where it happened near Ash,  there was U.S.A base near there, they reckon most of the stuff was/is prone to being under-water, seeing chalk is a aquifer, and subsequently damaged, by immersion in water..

But what a waste, why wasn't it just decommissioned & sold on?

Somewhere I read that sometime after the War, Motorcyclists & probably Motorists too, demonstrated against fuel rationing, in particular with respect to reviving Motor-sport activities, but also the lack of fuel for personal use, was an big issue also!

France, was quick off the mark with Motor-Sport as ever, leaving the Brit's lagging behind!


Cheers


JBW
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 02:09:09 PM by Johnnyboy-wonder »

Offline R

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1475
  • Karma: +26/-10
    • View Profile
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 10:54:16 AM »
Vincents sold, JAPs didn't.
Draw your own conclusions ?

That JAP4 looks like the business though.
Anyone know what happened to it (them ?). ?

Be interesting to compare to the inline Guzzi4 ??
Similar era....

wetdog

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2013, 11:48:25 AM »
tryed but failed to move with the times , like most of the british bike builders if not industry , vincent also went the same way

johnnyboy-wonder57

  • Guest
Re: Norton JAP Plus other Discussion!
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2013, 09:26:06 PM »
Hi,
Was it thought at the time, that the Vincent "V" twin was seen as innovative & the older  J.A.P "V" twin wasn't?
Isn't there a story that Vincent built his own engines, because he was let down by some J.A.P units, or was this embroidered into a piece of clever self-publicity, pumping up the Vincent and putting down J.A.P  units, their production & product quality output!

I found some information:
"At this stage Vincent was using proprietary engines, from Rudge and J.A.P, and a combination of being badly let down in the 1934 T.T. by one supplier and supply problems with the other caused him, with the help of Phil Irving, to design his own high pushrod engine, the 500cc Single. The story then goes that a chance juxtaposition of two drawings at an angle led Phil Irving to design the first Rapide V-Twin, the Plumber's Nightmare in 1936."
http://www.voc.uk.com/clubinfo.php

J.A.P should have known by the mid thirties, what they were doing, in motorcycle engineering terms & Rudge were renown for their fine engineering, maybe there is more to this story than first thought.

Maybe, it was a clash of personalities, maybe, it was envy of Company reputations or Skewed Company Management policies/industrial politics to frustrate competitors!.

Perhaps, aesthetically, the Vincent engine looked less post-war than the J.A.P units & of course J.A.P engines had been used in the other elite British "V" twin the Brough Superior!

Was it costs?

Guess we will never know!


Cheers

JBW

« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 09:30:28 PM by Johnnyboy-wonder »