classic motorcycle forum

So, last night I started out by making up the new base gasket :


I have made myself a set of templates out of some thicker carboard and used that.  I've trimmed the inner circle to be slightly larger, so hopefully there won't be a capillary path from the cylinder base straight out under the gasket this time.

I also made up a quick Mag-pinion cover gasket from the excess paper to avoid wasting it.


I then tidied all that away and got down to the main job of the evening.  I finished stripping down the crankcases again and experimented a bit with the shims just to confirm the crank-touching-the-cases issue.

I'm sure I took more photos over the course of the evening, but it looks like the phone camera didn't actually save them, which is odd....

Anyway: here's a few shots of the same modification that was done to the Output side of the assembly at some time before:



This is, essentially, what I need to emulate on the other side.
Interestingly.... the output side is the nut that was removed when we replaced the big-end bearings: in this photo you can see that the nut has been done up slightly tighter this time than it had been before: you can just see the threads on the crank-pin becuase the nut has been rotated on the pin about 5 degrees more this time.


I decided that the grinding would have to be done.
So I cleaned up the wheels as best I could, wrapped a tea-towel around the bigend to prevent too much grit getting to it:


Protected the timing-shaft oilway:


Experimenting with the best way to clamp up the wheels so they don't wander about.


Then remembered I have a little B&Q trestle that would make life a bit easier, clamped it to that and did some taping to protect other gaps and holes:


I also marked up the approximate area that needed work:


In addition I wrapped some duct tape around the shaft just in case the grinder got away from me!

Work in progress:






I did the majority of the grinding outside (to avoid any conflagrations...!) with a 115mm Ryobi, and it worked very well - nice and controllable.  The light was just enough that I could see what I was doing, but more would have been preferable.




And for some reason, that's where I stopped taking photos. (soz!)

I got to a point where all the marker had been eradicated, then, as the light was fading, I took the trestle back into the workshop and get the Dremel out to tidy up and polish.  I used the Dremel grinding wheel to make the ground-away area slightly concave and to take off the rough edges, then wire-brushed and polished it a bit.

I then cleaned it all up, using meths and paper to try to get rid of as much grit as possible, before removing all the protective stuff and unclamping the wheels.

I tried the wheel in the cases with a 0.023 shim (which is the minimal it would need I think.. I stil need to figure out exactly the best shims to use - more on that later*.

The $%^&&er is still scraping. GAH!

So - I need to take a bit more off - I suspect I just need to "round-off" the ground area so that it clears the head of the bearing-line-fixing-screw.

It's sooooo close!! 


* Something from the conversation I had with the Guru:  Although the recommended end-float in the Greenway book (which is the Speedway "Bible") is 0.012" - 0.015" : The Guru recommends letting it be a little looser : 0.015"-0.020"... and the engine will rev more freely.  Given that my engine is "square" (bore = stroke) and will be wanting to rev more easily due to that: I am taking that advice and giving it strong consideration.  The flip-side is that the Guru tends to be building up engines for actual racing... ie, they'll get stripped down again after a season, and a season is not really that many miles.   So: my thinking is to compromise on this and aim for an end float that takes into account the hopefully longer mileage that the engine will do before it's next strip down:  I'm going to aim for around 0.015", or slightly higher, end float: ie the looser end of the Greenway figures, and the tighter end of the Guru's advice.  The aim is to have the engine in good fettle for a few years of riding around on the road with the occasional classic "parade" track-day.  It's unlikely to get utterly thrashed, but I would rather not be rebuilding it every winter!

Here's the engine in a ROC.

In regards to the issue of the crank-pin nut contacting the bearing liner screw......




I've had a word with the JAP Guru... and his advice was to simply take an angle-grinder to the crank-nut and make clearance!

Apparantly it's a common thing, the cases are "not" exactly precision made, and there's a lot that were cast by jobbing engineering firms after JAP stopped production, so exact fitting is not always going to happen. His advice was to figure out the desired shims on the crank (to get the piston and con-rod as central as possible), then see if the nut is striking the liner screw (and the casing), and then get the grinder out! 

He also suggested that if I wanted to confirm the clearance I've created, I can fit slightly narrower shims (eg ten-thou thinner), and see if there's contact.  If not, then I should be good for the lifetime of the engine.  Sounds like a plan to me.

He also pointed out; when I mentioned my concern about affecting the overall balance of the crank; that shaving a 1/16th off 1/3rd of the crank nut would be akin to taking a piss before a weigh-in... totally irrelevant! Which was reassuring.

So - that'll be the next thing on the list!  GRINDING!

"I fitted the 0.060 thrust washers on the timing side, and a 0.023 on the output side..."

I guess this is part of the mis-matched engine thing. It would be nice if there were no shims between the face of the crank and the bearing inner. Usually this is accomplished by shimming the bearing outer in the crankcase. As it stands, your shims are pretty large and heavy, and there could be quite a "hula hoop" effect as they spin around the main shafts (or the shafts spin inside them), which could cause damage to the shafts and/or the shims. In reality, if you're not going racing, it will probably be ok. But it would worry me. Maybe check with your JAP man?

You mention there is not much end thrust when the engine is vertical: true provided the piston is square and centred. You might be amazed to see the inside of an engine that has been running with a bent con rod!

Leon

Oh dear.

Re gasket sealant, I've used Loctite Aviation Gasket Sealanf No. 3 https://autopro.com.au/ap/Autopro-Category/Brands/Loctite/Loctite-Gasket-Sealant-No-3-Aviation-50mL---3JA/p/DI01199 for may years. It's a bit old fashioned, but is has many properties that I like. It doesn't set (surely it's best feature - I hate nothing more than to find bits of sealant crap floating around in an engine), it seals well, it's cheap, and it's a dark-blackish-brown colour. Just a thin layer on any gasket, or machined metal-to-metal faces, wipe excess off with a rag - looks good and works well.

Avoiding things clanking is the ancient art of "fitting". Lots of measurement and care required. Often forgotten is that things expand when they get hot, so clank-free  on the bench is not enough - correct clearance is important. Make sure the rod is central to the crankcase opening, and double check that the piston is precisely at 90 degrees to the cylinder base. (You can do the latter with an engineer's square on the crankcase mouth, remembering that the piston is not round, and probably tapered! If you do a trial fit of the cylinder with no rings, the gap between the piston and the cylinder should be even.)

All good fun!

Leon

I'll have a look at that gasket stuff - The 3Bond seems to have separated in storage, I think that's why it's so runny and not working well.  I'l have to try to re-vitalise it a bit!

Yep - the heat expansion needs to be born in mind etc.  All good points!