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41
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« Last post by Albion EJ on June 06, 2025, 02:07:59 PM »
All thanks!

Indeed the bush on the right side is worn.

Any option to buy new ones to be fitted on the polished main shaft?
Or just have a copy made?
42
British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on June 05, 2025, 02:08:35 PM »
That No2 head has had a lot of time sent on it. Polishing ports may look good but does very little extra in an engine for a road bike.

I know it won't make a huge difference - but the better I prepare it and assemble it now, the longer it should go before the next strip down.  Hence new bearings etc going in.

The carb will be fine (unless you are going to run it on methonal and throw it sideways around a dirt oval) and the small step from 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 wont be noticable on the road and the step will actually help with fuel reversion at low revs. Keep up the good work and enjoy the bike.

In that case I just need to source a new manifold adaptor - (makes note to measure external diameter of head 2's mainfold)
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by murdo on June 05, 2025, 08:43:52 AM »
That No2 head has had a lot of time sent on it. Polishing ports may look good but does very little extra in an engine for a road bike.
The carb will be fine (unless you are going to run it on methonal and throw it sideways around a dirt oval) and the small step from 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 wont be noticable on the road and the step will actually help with fuel reversion at low revs. Keep up the good work and enjoy the bike.
44
British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by cardan on June 05, 2025, 01:45:44 AM »
Wow, that's quite a nice piece of hardware. Particularly for £130, which probably wouldn't cover the cost of supply/fit new valves.

Re a potential new carb: If you're planning just to ride the bike on the road you might want to try the existing carb first. 1.25" is a seriously large carburettor; for example a 500cc works TT racer used a 1 7/32 carb - 1.2188" - in the 1930s, with a big megaphone, 6000+ rpm, bump start and very little idling. With a muffler and road riding, your existing carb might be fine.

Pleased the crank is going to an expert.

Leon
45
British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on June 04, 2025, 04:22:50 PM »
In the interests of keeping up to date.... I also did some work last night.

Finished stripping down the "new" head.  It's tidy.


The valve stems aren't the same - the inlet especially looks to have been either cut short, or made that way to reduce interference on the flow of the charge?




About an hour or so later after a dubious application of Solvol and a toothbrush...








Bit nicer. :D

Polished up the back face of the valves too...




and then gave them a bit of a grind.  I only used the "fine" grinding paste because they were sealing nicely before, and I just wanted to ensure the mating face was good after the polish.  Obviously I'll test the seals again after reassembly.



Terrible photo of the excellent valve tool I inherited from my Dad. :D






That's a big hole....



I also took some measurements of the inlet manifolds on each head.  I'd read something about the evolution of the engine recently (must dig it out again), and that last photo made me curious....

Yup - they're different.

Head 1 (current) is 28.5mm / 1 1/8" internal diameter
Head 2 (new) is 32mm / 1 1/4" internal diameter.

I "believe" I'm right in thinking that if I want to use Head 2 (it's in better nick, has better valve stems and would appear to be "less old"), then I'm going to have to look for a new carb.  IIRC the inlet manifold needs to be a consistent diameter/cross-sectional area for as much as is possible - which would mean that the carb would need to be consistent with that too.  The current carb is an AMAL Monobloc (389/229) which measures 1 1/8" across the "exit" hole (ie where the fuel/air mixture exits the carb).  (Oddly, the AMAL website suggests (although they've taken off the details now) that that model Monoblox is a 1 5/32" which is ... err... 1 2.5/8"  (I think...)). So... I'm a little confused about that ..... 

It does mean I have a reason to potentially get a better carb though.... According to this site (https://surreycycles.com/carburettors/amal-monobloc-376-389/) there is no 1 1/4" Monobloc so I don't believe I can get the same carb and therefore have use of my now extensive collection of jets...) Something different then.... probably something like a Mk1 Concentric or something. I do have to say it's very tempting to look at some throaty Dellorto or something equally esoteric though.... might  suit the "crazy ... like a fox" nature of the bike. :D
46
British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on June 04, 2025, 04:22:02 PM »
Small update.

I haven't really made much progress, but things have happened.

I found the ONLY piece of JAP hardware at Beaulieu Autojumble: a head, complete with fitted valves! Snapped it up for £130 and kindly refused the same seller's offer of £475 for an AMAL Type 27 twin float-chamber dope-sucker!

I think the Head was made up for use, and then either only used very briefly, or put to one side as a "ready spare".

It holds water :


But I want to be sure that's it's fully-functional condition so I've started stripping it down to check valve-stem rattles etc:


It's pretty clean.


But there's always room for improvement... (that's the exhaust outlet)



The valves springs sit in these cups:


And you have mica washers that sit underneath the cups to adjust the valve-spring compression.  LIttle bit of verdigris here...



I've also arranged to take the crank up to the JAP speedway guru in a few weeks to strip it down, check the bearings and rebuild it (it's beyond my equipment and capabilities to rebuild the crank!)  I'll hopefully be able to take some photos of the process, if I'm allowed. :D

I've also just put in an order for a few bits..... around £600s worth..... (new main bearings, new big-end bearings, new cam-roller, etc etc).

every step is a step forward.... (even if they're not very often!)

47
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« Last post by R on June 02, 2025, 11:15:42 PM »
And the good thing about iron pistons in an iron bore is that they'd
have to get REALLY hot to think about nipping up, let alone seizing.

Even without much/any oil being in sight - thats the beauty of cast iron on cast iron.
The carbon in the crystal iron lattice makes this possible.
Without this, the old bike industry, with drip feed lube would never have prospered ?
48
British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« Last post by 33d6 on June 02, 2025, 08:46:46 AM »
Villiers advised up to .008” wear was acceptable. Whether bushes or crankshaft are worn is irrelevant. It is combined wear that counts. Essentially though, if it’s an easy starter, leave well alone. I find the major problem with old Villiers engines is that owners can’t resist pulling them apart to then find they’re never quite the same afterwards.
I think the fussiest area revolves around the ignition timing and the points. The points cam is on the end of the crankshaft so is directly affected by mains bush/crankshaft wear plus the points pivot hole in the points box wears so the action of the rocking pivot point gets erratic. It’s fascinating to watch when using an ignition timing light. You have this blurred line wandering 4-5 degrees each side of the timing line.
I don’t worry overly much about overheating. All cast iron fixed head two-strokes running a cast iron piston run hot. They cannot do otherwise. Just be enthusiastic with the oil.

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British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« Last post by cardan on June 02, 2025, 05:11:23 AM »
Is it sucking in false air through the bronze bushings on the crankshaft?

It will if the main shafts or the bushes are worn: the shafts and bushes need to be round with only a thou or two clearance (say 0.025-0.05 mm). You definitely should not feel any movement if you grab the flywheel and try to move it up and down. If it clunks you're in trouble! The other place that wear occurs in early two strokes is in the bore: not so much up the top (as it is in four strokes) but above and below the ports where the rings jump across. And the rings, of course.

If these parts are worn the bike will probably still run, but will get hot an bothered when riding. If you've got good compression - it really should be quite "sharp" as you kick it over - then wear is probably not the problem at the moment.

Leon
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British Bikes / Re: Villiers XIIC 148cc doesn’t run anymore
« Last post by 33d6 on June 01, 2025, 11:49:58 PM »
Yes, that is correct. The vertical surface of the deflector  faces the transfer  port.
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