Author Topic: Troubleshooting a JAP Special  (Read 19702 times)

Offline john.k

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2023, 07:38:51 AM »
JAPs traditionally breathe only through the oilbox ......if you put breathers anywhere else ,you upset the lubrication system,and may even cut off the big end feed

Offline Rex

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2023, 09:21:11 AM »
No difference.  Whatever is preventing the tickler working correctly is still evading me.  Next attempt will mean going into the float bowl itself and seeing there's something odd about the interface between the tickler and the float.  I've been doing some reading up and it seems that the new nylon floats sometimes cause minor problems so it's worth taking a look.

I seem to recall that the tickler on Monoblocs can be "adjusted" slightly by tapping the central tube down or up in the carb body. Maybe the current position is too high for juice to appear at the tickler before it drips from the carb itself?
Or maybe I'm thinking of another carb... ???

Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2023, 09:22:59 AM »
JAPs traditionally breathe only through the oilbox ......if you put breathers anywhere else ,you upset the lubrication system,and may even cut off the big end feed

That's pretty much my understanding too.

This bike "has" run well in the past, but was parked up for a few years (my Dad's health deteriorated and he died in '21, it took me a year or two to be ready for looking after the bike).


Last Friday I Took the JAPton out for a spin round the block:

It might run ok at less than 1/4 throttle, but any more than that and it starts bogging down, won't fire at all, then after 2 or 3 deafening explosions from the exhaust it'll pick up and run well for about 10 seconds or so before it starts bogging down again.

Rinse and repeat again and again if I try to ride it anything more than 1/4 throttle (ish).


I've been pouring over the literature I've got (the JAP books, and the AMAL tuning leaflet) and I still can't get my head around whether these symptoms are the carb set too rich, too weak, or something else completely.

The Amal booklet seems to suggest that issues with firing in the exhaust are ignition related.... But that doesn't balance with the fact that the engine WILL run properly for a few seconds before it bogs again, so I'm somewhat confused.

As I say, it'll run ok for a bit, then it seems as if something "builds up" and it stops firing, until the fuel in the exhaust detonates, and it clears up and runs again.... Until the "blockage" builds up again.  That's what makes me think it's not ignition or timing - because presumably it wouldn't run at all at lower throttle openings etc if the timing had shifted?

Next thing I'm going to do is go over the inlet manifold and exhaust joins and check there's not gaps or holes in the system.


Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2023, 02:19:18 PM »
Well, I've still not figured out what's wrong with the JAPton. Did some checks last week and fuel flow is good ( more than half a litre per minute, which ought to be fine).

Raised the needle by one because i thought it might be a bit weak, and tried starting it up and although it started easily enough, its still spitting back and backfiring.

I'm beginning to think the ignition timing has slipped, so i took a cover over the magneto drive sprocket to check it.
Seemed fine so went to put the little cover back on, and bugger me if the sodding thread didn't strip.

GAH!

So I'm going to put the JAPton aside for a bit and concentrate on the other projects i need to get done before winter, and will very likely spend the winter stripping the thing down and learning more of its foibles.

Offline iansoady

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2023, 04:38:35 PM »
That'll be fun.....

I am considering a Chinese pitbike carb for my Tri-Greeves. I have the correct monobloc but it's missing bits and is in poor shape. For £15 must be worth a punt......
Ian
1964 Norton Electra
1969 BSA/Suzuki
1992 Yamaha 250SRV

Offline R

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2023, 11:46:01 PM »
Have you tried tickling it while its running.

The amal, the amal.
(Not while riding it either.)(could be a risk to life and linb)

If its fuel related, this should tell if its starving for fuel.
There is some chat about viton tipped fuel needles, or not, in monoblocs.

Offline john.k

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2023, 02:02:35 AM »
The obvious answer is to fit another carb that is known to work OK.

Offline Rex

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2023, 10:09:27 AM »
There is some chat about viton tipped fuel needles, or not, in monoblocs.

Yep, some claim that the Viton needles are prone to sticking "up" and shutting the supply of juice off.
Re the pit bike Choagy carbs, an old boy I know paid £14 for one off Ebay, and stuck it on his reluctant Tiger Cub. Apparently it started second kick and even ticks over fresh out the box.

Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2023, 03:26:33 PM »
The obvious answer is to fit another carb that is known to work OK.

Its certainty a thought.

Do you have one to lend? ;)

Offline iansoady

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2023, 04:59:25 PM »
There is some chat about viton tipped fuel needles, or not, in monoblocs.

Yep, some claim that the Viton needles are prone to sticking "up" and shutting the supply of juice off.
Re the pit bike Choagy carbs, an old boy I know paid £14 for one off Ebay, and stuck it on his reluctant Tiger Cub. Apparently it started second kick and even ticks over fresh out the box.

I've heard this myself which is why I'm considering it. Ebay also has sets of main & idle jets for a couple of quid or so. I've never had the experience if viton needles sticking despite using them for decades.
Ian
1964 Norton Electra
1969 BSA/Suzuki
1992 Yamaha 250SRV

Offline Rockburner

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2023, 08:48:49 PM »
There is some chat about viton tipped fuel needles, or not, in monoblocs.

Yep, some claim that the Viton needles are prone to sticking "up" and shutting the supply of juice off.
Re the pit bike Choagy carbs, an old boy I know paid £14 for one off Ebay, and stuck it on his reluctant Tiger Cub. Apparently it started second kick and even ticks over fresh out the box.

I've heard this myself which is why I'm considering it. Ebay also has sets of main & idle jets for a couple of quid or so. I've never had the experience if viton needles sticking despite using them for decades.

Got any links for the jets?

Offline iansoady

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2023, 10:09:14 AM »
Ian
1964 Norton Electra
1969 BSA/Suzuki
1992 Yamaha 250SRV

Offline john.k

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2023, 11:12:01 AM »
Yes ,im tossing up whether to get a 28mm RE carb ,which will be jetted correctly ,or a cheapy PWK a bit bigger ...maybe 30mm.........from what Im told ,if the cheapy isnt jetted  right ...or at all......buying  bigger jets is a no go ,and the jets are different thread from mainstream carbs that the Chinese ones are copied from.

Offline iansoady

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2023, 11:50:57 AM »
I've bitten the bullet and ordered a 20mm device (equivalent to the standard 3TA monobloc). I'm emboldened by the fact I just bought a complete CDI / coil package for my Honda XBR500 and it seems to work as well as the Dutch one I paid £110 for. How much for the ebay item? £10.56. And it arrived today after ordering on Sunday......
Ian
1964 Norton Electra
1969 BSA/Suzuki
1992 Yamaha 250SRV

Offline john.k

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Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2023, 06:50:21 AM »
Just seen a very tidy  1971 Triumph Daytona   with a few bits missing (mufflers ,covers ,speedo/tach) go for $5000..........reckon some dealers will be sweating a bit............see some auction results from UK too .......owners here asking $20k + for Velo Venoms far of the mark.....UK auction sales of tidy Velos and Gold Stars around $10k A.