classic motorcycle forum

One other niggle is oil system ,its total loss  and after running for a while dribbles oily mess into its dirt tray  .I would like to check the output of the pump but cant run the engine with it disconnected ?

Hi Geoff,

You pump has an inlet and an outlet (?), so presumably you can disconnect the outlet pipe and see what comes out when the engine is running. If the bottom of the oil tank is not filled with sludge (and it probably will be if you haven't taken the tank off the bike and cleaned it out) oil should be running out the outlet withing a few seconds of starting. The pump is said to be adjustable, so you should be able to adjust it between nothing and a slow trickle. Normal running might require something like 30 drips per minute, so it would be useful to find the setting that gives this.

The oil coming out of the oil pump should look pristine and golden!

Then you need to find the sump plug and drain everything out of the engine, if you haven't done this already. Do it after the engine had run and mixed things up a bit. If everything is ok, there should be a surprisingly small amount of oil to drain out, say an egg-cup-full.

When you restart the engine there will be no oil in it. Yuk - this is a job for the hand pump in the oiling system but you don't have one! If you can't find a place to squirt in a few squirts from the oil can, at least set the oil pump to its highest setting for the first minute or so of running, and don't rev the engine, before cutting it back to the 30 drip per minute setting.

No oil should be coming from anywhere at this point. If it does, you have an oil leak. In a total loss system most excess oil is burned with only the odd drop ending up on the road. If you have oil running out, your oil pump feed might be set to "max". Is the exhaust very smokey?

Leon

I just had a look. Nice bike, but no dry sump until 1930, so do be careful it's feeding enough oil into the engine. Funny in this era when there's no hand pump to help out... Interesting that the spec says AMAL but the drawing shows AMAC MDY - 1929 was the change over period and lots of bike still used AMAC even though the AMAL was said to be available.

Once you've got compression and checked the ignition timing, it would be worth cheching for air leaks around the carb and inlet manifold as it won't idle if it leaks.

Good luck.

Leon

Edit: Or maybe a valve is sticking at low speed - make sure they're not rusty and give them a squirt of something

Hi Geoff,

I've re-read the above, but still not sure where you're up to. Is everything OK at higher speeds - will it rev, ride down the road, accelerate etc? If so that rules out lots of things. If not, that's a better place to start than getting a good low idle.

The 1" AMAC carb is presumably a T25MDY (or X if its top feed). This is usually stamped on the body somewhere, maybe near the mounting flange. If so this is the standard touring carb, with the air adjustment with the little slide on the side of the mixing chamber. Royal Enfield went to AMAL carburettors in 1930, and the 350 ohv used 6/004 body, 15/16" bore, 130 jet, 6/5 slide, needle position 3, and 14/079 float chamber. So the 1" size is about right, if a bit on the large side. Re jet: 130 AMAL = 36 AMAC = 0.038"

Don't forget that the needle in your throttle slide may or may not be the correct needle or at the correct height. AT least check that the needle is well clear of the needle jet at full throttle.

Leon

I would think so, as most vintage engines use phosphor bronze in this application and a C15 is hardly a race bike. I'm guessing, but maybe sintered bronze has a structure that seems a bit more open than pb (?), so maybe it holds oil a bit better?

Leon

I've often wondered how the fuel level thing worked on the horizontal-bodied carbs.

In 1933 (a year of disasters) Douglas used a down-draft version of the horizontal-bodied AMAL on their big twins. Perhaps lucky they didn't make many bikes that year as I suppose flooding would literally fill the engine with fuel!

Leon

(wonder if older vehicle's where all just registered as 1927 which would account for the other Atainia
being registered 1927)

No, I don't think so. "mise en circulation: 12/02/1927" translates to "registered 12/02/1927". i.e. the date the other Atania was registered.

It would be fun to locate 1, Pl. Morbihan and find a photo of what was there c1925.

Note that Morbihan is the name of the "Department" (administrative region) where Lorient is located, and also the name of the Place in Lorient where M. Barbet's cycle shop was located.

Let us know what you find out.

Leon

The DD front end looks very similar (closest I've seen)

Yes, I assume the fork is French, or at least continental. "S&AG" rings no bells for me, but I know little about French/continental fork makers. "AG" is (roughly) "Pty Ltd" in German, and often found on German (or Swiss) products. "SGDG" is another commonly seen stamping, relating to patents. I'd actually expected the fork to be AD.

The Dé Dé engines are discussed in the article I posted a link to: Moussard-Madoz (often called just Moussard) and Duten. Try Google translate if your French is a bit dodgy.

The "Bowden France" lever is interesting. Lots of British manufacturers were busy in France in the 1920s, and some like Bowden obviously developed "local" versions of their products. The AMAC brand finished up in the UK c1930 when AMAL was formed, but it continued on from a French base right through the 1930s.

No clear photos of the saddle, but Brooks had a patent protecting the supporting rod to the saddle running through the centre of the spring. Very commonly Brooks saddles have another spring inside, and concentric with, the main spring. If the saddle is Broooks, the Brooks name will be stamped on the saddle clamp, and "10-12 Stone" will be stamped on the front part of the flat steel seat rails. If it's not Brooks, it's a Brooks copy.

All 4 strokes in the 1920s had a cable-operated valve lifter.

Not sure what the object on the saddle post of the Dé Dé and the Claude Delage is, but it might be an auxiliary oil tank. These were sometimes fitted inside the petrol tanks of British bikes, and a measuring cup was used to move the appropriate amount of oil from the oil tank into the petrol tank when filling with fuel, there being no "premix" on offer.

"Zhumoriste" (aka "Bourdache") has written several books about French motorcycles, including one about French motorcycles of the early 1920s) and may be a good person to ask re the Atania. Unfortunately his long-running blog has been disassembled into remnants (like the Dé Dé article) but he now writes at  http://zhumoriste.eklablog.com/ and can probably be contacted there.

Good luck,

Leon