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The Classic Biker Bar / Re: 1939 ISDT
« Last post by L.A.B. on January 19, 2018, 11:04:50 AM »
It looks like he was on a works provided BSA Goldstar/Silverstar (not exactly sure what as it appears to be some sort of factory hybrid possibly).

https://speedtracktales.com/2012/09/26/appeal-help-us-find-the-pre-war-isdt-bsas/

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It is believed that all the 500cc were M24s with the exception of 2 bikes in the CSMA team: Fred Perks rode a M23 Silver Star and Les Ridgeway a M23 engine in a M24 Gold Star frame. (see Classic M/C Dec 1984)
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The Classic Biker Bar / Re: 1939 ISDT
« Last post by mini-me on January 19, 2018, 11:03:21 AM »
As Ian says the 1939 ISDT has a great back story, whether bikes were abandoned I can't recall but quite a few competitors rode their bikes home.
What is overlooked is the real help the riders were given by the German organisers to leave Germany before hostilities started, fuel, visa's etc.
Somewhere I have the story in an old issue of either Motorcycle or Motorcycling and I'd suggest that would be a good start for background.
Then the BSA owners club, maybe the ACU.
A surprising number of ex ISDT bikes survive, your may well still be in a collection, even a museum, Sammy Miller might help if he's in a good mood.
Have you checked DVLA records to see if that reg is still on their books?

There has been quite lot written about that 1939 event over the years.

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European and Other Bikes / Re: Whats this engine in 1930's Monet Goyon
« Last post by mini-me on January 19, 2018, 10:44:57 AM »
That original ad is full of BS, an upfront dealer would have been subject to prosecution, its a tissue of lies, assumptions and downright ignorance.
Its typical of the crap spouted in ebay ads by sellers of these imports, mostly opportunist "antique"  dealers doing the rounds of the french
 brocantes.

As for that reg its got to be fake, I cannot believe that was imported into this country in 1947. No way. 

This....
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Obviously with nothing other than what this says and no real providence I took it with a pinch of salt. What do you think ? The V5 I have gives a date of something like 1947 ( I do not have it to hand and do not remember if the reg No is transferable or not ) Any idea where the reg No is from ?

.....Is that seller telling you he has found out he bought a pile of crap for an excessive price and now wishes to unload it. 

None of my  my V5s "give a something like date". ::)

"I took it with a pinch of salt" I'd need enough to grit the M1 to swallow that spiel.


I ought not to get wound up about crap bikes but I still remember the real trouble I had to sell  good honest  bikes years ago, I never sold a dud, and always stood by what I sold, only to see people buy scrappers from my rivals at bigger prices. Then they'd came moaning to me about it. >:( >:(
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The Classic Biker Bar / Re: 1939 ISDT
« Last post by iansoady on January 19, 2018, 10:38:23 AM »
Can't help but best of luck in your quest.

The 1939 ISDT was the one where the British teams had to make a fairly hair-raising trip back across the continent to avoid being caught up in the war. I believe a number of bikes were abandoned in France and others were loaded onto vans and brought back to the UK. Some managed to ride their bikes back.

I have a copy of the Rob Carrick ISDT book in which he says: "Of the CSMA team, Whitehouse lost 10 and Ridgway retired, leaving Fred Perks running on time" on the penultimate day - after which all British competitors were instructed to abandon and return to the UK.
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The Classic Biker Bar / 1939 ISDT
« Last post by Stew on January 19, 2018, 10:22:48 AM »
Morning all,

First of all hello as I am new to these parts so to speak (not necessarily to internet forums but definitely to the world of classic motorbikes), and apologies of this is not the correct part of this board to post in.  Anyway before I start rambling too much I may as well explain why I'm here, my Grandpa on my Dad's side was a very active trails rider in the 1930's on-wards until 1950 (I think).  He sadly died in 1995 but it was only after his death that the rest of the family discovered that he had ridden for the CSMA Team in the 1939 ISDT in Salzburg, competitor number 47.

It looks like he was on a works provided BSA Goldstar/Silverstar (not exactly sure what as it appears to be some sort of factory hybrid possibly).  Picture two is the registration document of that machine, whilst picture one is him (left hand rider) with the other two members of the team collecting the bikes from the BSA factory.  Picture three is the time card for day 4 (his last day before the machine broke down...I think). 

Anyway, my main question is this...Does anyone know what happened to the teams machine's after they were handed back to the factory?  Did they survive? I know its a long shot but it would be cool to find out what happened to them.
 I have a collection of paperwork related to this event along with 50% of his trophy collection, I think my cousin has the other half.  I will try to scan these documents on as I have just replaced my scanner form one that works ( the attachments are just photos from my phone and not the best quality I'm afraid.

I will leave it there for now.

Stew
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European and Other Bikes / Re: Whats this engine in 1930's Monet Goyon
« Last post by Rex on January 19, 2018, 10:12:17 AM »
I'm always a bit sceptical when sellers claim some sort of racing link, then in the next sentence say that they don't really know; still, it looks like a fun bike either way. The reg number doesn't appear to be age-related, so unless someone has done a ring-job then it seems the bike has been in the UK for some time rather than a Kempton dreamers bike.
Even if it had been an import in the early days of Ebay (as mine was) it would still be wearing an age-related plate.
Mine was a 1936 ALS2 (or ALS3, I forget) and even though it had an OHV engine with exposed hair-pin valve springs, 4-speed box, Webb-style girders and a soft-soldered pie-crust tank it was still dull, and soon sold back to French.
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European and Other Bikes / Re: Whats this engine in 1930's Monet Goyon
« Last post by 33d6 on January 19, 2018, 05:16:54 AM »
Hi R,
In the main early Villiers did not use screwed on exhaust nuts. They started with the 125cc 9D in 1936 and the 197cc 3E in 1938 but the majority of Villiers exhausts in the 1920's and 30's used either a clamp on a stub style or bolt on flanges. The first screwed exhaust nuts were of a castellated style and only in the 1950's did they finally move to the finned nut as shown on the mystery engine. I'd be interested to finally know what make the mystery engine is but it didn't come out of the Villiers factory.

Neither do I understand the difficulty in dating the bike itself. As you rightly point out there are several Monet Goyon sources available on the web. Monet-Goyon have a solid following in France. It's not as if it is an impossibly early veteran or an obscure make produced only for two or three years. People know Monet Goyon well.

I look forward to some solid information.
Cheers,
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European and Other Bikes / Re: Whats this engine in 1930's Monet Goyon
« Last post by R on January 19, 2018, 03:42:57 AM »
Monet Goyon made a heck of a lot of 2 stroke models, for quite some years.
Keep clicking, your model is probably there - someplace. !
http://www.monet-goyon.net/2tempsAVG.html

Both my Villiers powered beasties of 125cc and 225 cc had exhaust pipes which screwed on with a fine threaded large exhaust nut.  This was very common over the years ? Very robust too.
The licence built ones used the same system, by the looks of it  ?
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European and Other Bikes / Re: Whats this engine in 1930's Monet Goyon
« Last post by 33d6 on January 18, 2018, 11:08:40 PM »
Jonny,
That engine isn't Villiers. There is nothing Villiers about it. For example, the flywheel magneto is definitely not Villiers. The whole style of the engine isn't Villiers. It is certainly not 'racing' Villiers. Villiers entered the 1923 Ultra Lightweight TT with a fixed head engine like your example and found very quickly they had overheating issues. The next year they came back with the Super Sport TT engine having an alloy head and alloy piston and from then on until Villiers ceased production sporting Villiers engines used alloy head and pistons and only Villiers 'cooking' engines were fixed iron head.
 
Monet Goyon imported Villiers engines through the 1920's and won a lot of races in the 175cc class using Villiers engines. So much so that other French makers forced through a rule insisting that only home grown French engines could be used whereupon Monet Goyon started making Villiers engines under licence. They are very similar to Villiers but not 100% identical. Your engine may be one of them.

 Pre war Villiers engines are dead easy to identify as they all had a clearly stamped letter prefix before the individual engine number. The ID numbers/letters on the back of the cylinder are internal factory casting numbers for foundry identification purposes, nothing else. If there are no engine numbers stamped on the crankcase then it isn't Villiers. If there are engine numbers stamped in then say what they are.

I think your V5 saying 1947 could be correct. The French industry were still using girder forks then, especially in the light weight field. Have a look at other French lightweights and you will see it.
Cheers,
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European and Other Bikes / Re: Whats this engine in 1930's Monet Goyon
« Last post by Jonny The Goat on January 18, 2018, 10:16:39 PM »
I do not think the number has been filed even though it looks bad. It seems to be deep in the metal and I do not think it was stamped but in the casting when it was done. Also it came with the for me impossible to use rear heal brake as well as both a hand change and foot change gear leaver with a stubby hand change leaver. There was no kick start and one could not be fitted. I have done a few easyily reversible mods since the photo like bringing the brake leaver in front of foot peg and removing the foot change leaver so i can fit a kick start, still need to work on that. It had no lights on and I fitted them though not wired up yet and may remove and fit number boards :). Its very hard to ride as you need to be of horse jockey size with your legs right up in a jockey position.  Not much going for it really as a riders bike but I just really like the look :).

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