BSA Demise& Industrial Heartland Destruction

[rosko]

I thought you had had some answers? what applied to the demise of all our industry applied to the motorcycle industry, and there is little point in us amateurs discussing yesterdays mistakes.

That is if you believe its a "mistake" I worked in the motorcycle industry right at the very end, and its rapidly became my belief, which was shared among the remaining workforce, that  that asset stripper Denis Poore for one, had the intention to set out to destroy what was left of it.
Our industry, all of it, has been exported  to, for want of a better word, punish the British worker, and for short term profit for vested interests; hence even our basic utilities are foreign owned.
Equally responsible were the Unions, who probably helped to put as many workers out of work as the vested interests, riddled with communists or confused versions of it, there were intent on confrontation and happy to cut off their noses to spite their faces.
The working man was stuffed, as the closed shop was a tyrant.
Back in the 1960s I once had to go on strike for a day, in a south London factory, in support of a dispute in another engineering concern way up north; all that achieved was the loss of a days wages. Then I saw the light.


I did make the point right at the start that my views had nothing to do with skin colour, but it should now be obvious that it is becoming the dominant worry in this country is immigration, from anywhere.
Like it or not it, its Islam that's perceived as the threat. Rightly so in my opinion
A brown face does not make a Muslim.


One police force alone is arresting 33 immigrant criminals every day, mostly from East Europe. A brown face does not make a Muslim.

Whether they are all good or all bad it makes no difference this country is sleep walking into a disaster quite soon.
and as stated above everything these days seems to come back to immigration and the worry it is causing, the flight from inner cities etc

seemingly gleeful de-industrialisation of one of the industrial heartlands of the UK & the unstinting one- dimensional Political & Social solution of building 1000s of "Micky-mouse" homes

The two are irrevocably connected, what would you do with the site? build factories that make stuff we cannot sell?  using skills we no longer have or train in? the houses are being built because of the increase in population which is out of hand and its out of hand WHY?

 Hopwoods book seems to pop up on various forums from time to time, prompting debate about things past, have you not thrown bait upon the waters and caught a bigger fish than you expected?


Motor cyclists are heartily disliked by the establishment for the reason that riding motorcycles shows an independent turn of mind, and worse still a desire to be an " Individual" the biggest crime one can commit in this country today.

Its a bugger of a subject this, and bound to cause upset to someone.

[slyvestor2]

I  came from a working class family and was brought up on a council estate a few miles north of Nottingham,my father was a forman for a famous aero engine company and a stout Labour party supporter as was 'mum' can you imagine the reaction i got when i told them that at the next election that i intended to vote Tory!Why said mum,you will regret it said dad,the fact is dad, i dont know who the labour party really stand for i said,they seem to want to support anyone who wants to go on strike and cause industrial chaos, but they will stand up for you when you need them he informed me and the tory will always stand up for the rich and industrialist,i guess the real point to me writing this is that both views are true! Mr Blair and Brown have allowed hundreds of thousands of immigrants into the country to generate a pool of social underclass (because most will struggle for a generation) thus looking after future votes,and guess what! the Tory party are now bringing bills into parliment to try and restrict immigration thus ensuring their future vote pool,We have all been shafted by self serving MP's and councilers.The problem is we are the ones to blame for allowing this to happen.The two party system we have got will always look after themselves after all they need a job too!

[rosko]

I  came from a working class family and was brought up on a council estate

Me too. and proud of it. Still in retirement a union member as well.

I too have had good experiences with 'immigrants' My daughters life was saved by the  quick diagnosis and instant action of a black doctor; I too have had needed assistance from  black guy after an accident in France, I have sub-let a flat to a girl from Cameroon, her and her families opinions on West Indians for instance cannot be repeated here.
That is not the point.
The point is waves after wave of unrestricted,  let em all in immigration which is causing grave disquiet in this country.

The immigrants themselves are not to blame for what happened to this countries industry, we are, in that we all swallowed the lies and bullshit spouted by successive politicians with their own agenda.
It is becoming ever more transparent, these other agendas but as we have bred a generation of sheeple and thicko chavs it is ever harder to convince them that it is so.

Even if we started to regenerate our industry tomorrow where are the skilled men? working in  B&Q,? or had enough, or retired or just too cynical. We need to teach kids in school the joys of working with their hands, the joy of making something, Instead schools are closing engineering or carpentry workshops because of "health and safety"
My own school which had well equipped carpentry and metal work shops is now a "Centre of Excellence for Performing Arts" in other words its teaching the hooded  2nd generation rubbish that haunts the streets at night to play the drums and dance.
Plumstead my roots, where my family had market stalls for generations is derelict crap hole run by Somali gangstas; gone is the Arsenal, Siemans , the shipyards and all the other industries, no one would want to work there  even if those factories survived its too bloody dangerous.
Its all very well to wring ones hands over the issue but the causes  and effects are there to be seen.
We were warned.

The bottom line is that you should never have bought that Japanese bike or TV, the German car, the Chinese tat of all kinds that's stuffed all our industry, not while the same thing could have been bought here, but you all wanted it cheap cheap cheap.

The most powerful political force in this country is the consumer, if only they'd realise it. If you don't buy foreign goods, the multi nationals profits will suffer and they'll look to make goods here if the demand grows.

Does no one feel ashamed that we import chicken from Thailand and south America to sell cheap chicken to mostly immigrants? or throwaway motorcycles from China, a potential enemy?

We had quite adequate commuter motorcycles or Mopeds made in France [yes I know that's outside UK as well] the Motobecane; cheap reliable easy to maintain, 200mpg, that was exterminated by the EU on "green" grounds. and we used to make them here under licence.

How many realise  that a huge percentage of Germanys wealth is solely because its a clearing house, import centre for Chinese made goods? They are the middle men of the EU, nearly all out imports from the Far east come into the EU via Germany.

Its all there to see, how why when who.

Its a gods gift to ranters this thread.

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

A friend of mine was once discussing the burial of a colleague & the Funeral arrangements & another man chipped in, to which he said, "why are you expressing an opinion, you have made it clear for the last twenty years that you are an Atheist, so why should it bother you, after all, when you die, surely just a hole in the ground will be good enough for you"!

You may think that this has nothing to do with the thread I initially posted & yet it is the same situation under a different guise, for the content in some of the  posts have nothing to do with the core material I intended the post to be about except by the most tenuous links,  to express vested points of view on the nature of immigration & the racial make-up of our islands.

Neither of which has primarily anything to do with BSA's etal industrial demise.  I'm not that certain either that house building also can be attributed solely to the above either, surely our traditional 2 storey houses should be built in a more cost effective 3 or 4 storey form, saving land & giving families more living space.  However, the artificial drive to build, connected to our domestic housing crisis is again linked more to a lack of previous Financial controls in Bank lending & greed profiteering,  the old school tie & increase Municipal Council Taxation e.t.c than just purely demographic cycles.

Yes, I would like previously Industrial land to be used for something else too, but that doesn't seem to happen either, wherever you go its the same story, blocks of flats & houses, no new green spaces & seemingly little development for work opportunities by comparison.

It would seem that within  BSA, a divisive  "Class" orientated  tier system & too many people without knowledge or interest in motorcycles,  helped to break the cohesiveness  of the Industry as a whole, as identified by Hopwood  combined with an overbearing Senior Management .

However, BSA was  beyond doubt the only real chance of a possible  future survival of the industry, in terms of plant & expertise.   The fact is the crisis situation was betrayed internally on the 14th of March 1973, when leaked information wiped the share-prices to zero on the Stock market.  Industrial espionage of this type has been all to common & the concerns voiced @ that time, that Norton was the "tail wagging the dog", proved on reflection to be tragically true.

Hopwood's Modular approach was & would be the only ideal concept ever drawn up to ever get the British bike industry back on its feet as a volume producer.  Why Norton & Dennis Poore was put forward as the lead role to absorb the larger more modern & expansive BSA concern remains a mystery except to say that Manganese- Bronze were enabled to get  many of BSA's profitable sub- manufacturing non-motorcycle groups @ a bargain price & this smacks of some sort of Insider dealing in my view aided & abetted by a naive Government Ministers, or were they?

Although this post has attracted  quite a few replies, in the main it is only a few individuals that have made  the effort to share their views, long-live Democracy & that's one can of worms even I'm not  going to open....good point about the Environment though!

The value of people to a Nation is what's is in their heads & how expansive their thought forms can be with respect to being intelligently usable for the benefit of all, or conversely controlled in repressive regimes and stunted, a concept fully embraced by many publications produced by the Murdoch clan!


JBW

[Rex]

Another problem was that even if BSA had been able and willing to produce something to rival Honda, the media ( and the sheep one meets in every pub) would have decried it to the point that the whole thing would have become self-fulfilling prophecy.
Remember Rover and the comments of that oh so funny little trio on Top Gear? I surprised that the bubble-topped c*nt Clarkson has the nerve to show his long smirking face in the West Midlands...

[rosko]

At least we are in agreement re Denis Poore and his antics?

However, it was an industry that was doomed, you cannot have a successful business when the workers and the management hate and detest each other and spend more time trying to get one up over each other than manufacturing a decent product.

Back in the 1970s I opened a bike shop stocked with  several basements full of Triumph spares, from defunct dealers. In those days one could do that. I was also a long time Triumph nut and mechanic.
Things went really well on the Triumph side as I had  masses of hard to get parts; then I got asked for newer stuff, so the idea of a Triumph spares agency grew; a mate approached the Triumph stand at a show and mooted the idea to the rep. She was full of enthusiasm for the support so I approached the Meriden co-op.
Big mistake.
No I could not have a spares agency unless I was approved. I pointed out that I had a large and growing customer base, all keen to keep Triumphs on the road.

They only sold spares through Triumph dealers.

OK I will sell your new bikes then.....

If, big IF, I was "approved" to sell their co-op bikes I had to order a minimum of three bikes, cash up front in full and no delivery date available, or promised.
and in any case they were not interested in supplying spares older machines either.

That my friends is a true story.

In the early 1960's Honda spread out crates of 3x Honda 50 machines to any one with a shop front who would put down a fiver and pay the rest on sale of bike. Gilberts of Catford became a huge Honda dealer that way.

Chinese bikes seem to be repeating the idea.

Its  seems to be in this country a point of honour to have each side detest each other, each side constantly endeavouring to outdo or put one over on the other.
One side, the unions, try to grab every penny in wages/perks liberty taking that  it can.[ ie London underground.]

The other side tries to do the worker out of every penny it can, by paying as low a wage as possible, and, getting back to the elephant in the  room, by importing labour.

A house near me, a listed building, has just been bought for 7 million quid; its new owner,a hedge fund manager, immediately brought in Ukrainian and Polish labour. to renovate the decor and plumbing.
I know because I talked to the guys.
Its not as if there is a shortage of willing  skilled plumbing/painters/builders around here.

So that's a little more resentment in this area against imported labour and the moneyed classes. and a bit more wealth and tax income exported.

 That's how the two problems are inextricable.

[wink]

 Well ,you men have said it all. More than I dare but here are some prompts to stir it some more.
1 "Did you like that?" was FREDS phrase as he demolished chimneys whilst preserving what he could.
2 Some of my best friends BIKES are black didn`t refer to their owners skin colour.
3 I too have been helped/saved by more brown people than white.
4 Muslims aren`t bad people but their religion rules their lives.
5 If I lived in their countries conditions and knew I would be welcomed in europe I would be here tomorrow. I drive round France and the cities there are equally as full of Africans and Muslim women due to their having had an Empire like Queen Victorias Who was of german descent. they are full of Turks, I don`t know why. It`s the same in Spain with moroccans and South Americans. I`m starting to rant ,I`ll stop now. why the European Uneconomic community let anyone east of poland in I cant imagine. It won`t stop their local wars.
6 My father worked at Tandons and I keep intending to write about it but I thought this site was dying when you look at the response to some of the forums. Tandon was Indian by the way. But not Muslim.

[Rex]

Its not as if there is a shortage of willing  skilled plumbing/painters/builders around here.

No, and it's not as if those Poles etc do an excellent job for 50p either. If they did, maybe it would be possible to understand the thinking behind it.

Reminds me of Birmingham Council recently who made about 100 IT staff redundant, and "out-sourced" their work to India. When the local news programmes interviewed the various parties, the Chairman of the local Chamber of Commerce praised the council's actions, and said more should follow suit in an effort to reduce costs.
Clearly this congenital idiot couldn't follow the reasoning that now there was yet another 100 families who wouldn't be spending in his Commerce members' shops/pubs/cafes/etc and the "money" had been exported to India.
Seems like the idiot middle classes are still making the same old mistakes they've been making since the end of the War, Gawd help us...

[rosko]

The above comments re Muslims being friendly and helpful, is quite correct.Especially when in their own countries where it is an traditional obligation to help the traveller, anybody read Dervla Murphys books? where she travelled alone by push bike through all those 'dodgy' countries.
The lone traveller through Iraq Iran Syria on the hippy trail also found the same thing to be true.

there is a big BUT factor....... these lone travellers were seen as poor people on a par with the locals and not as a threat. Its the same in most underdeveloped countries, my wife travelled the length of South America on her own, nothing but kindness from the local folk.

What we are importing here is a brand of religious fanaticism by brainwashed illiterates who have absolutely no concept of modern  life or of western North European values.
Their object is to drag us into the middle ages once more.



They are funded, in order to promote their own extreme version of the religion, by the Saudis to whom our establishment seems to be in thrall; Its the Saudi's behind the ruckus in Syria and the Arab spring BS.

Ideally I would like to see the dominant powers in the world join forces and beat the crap out of Saudi and run the oil industry between us, I would happily live out my life on petrol rationing if need be to see that.
But that's me being extreme and unreasonable . Much the same as the Taliban, whose paymaster is Saudi Arabia

But I wont expand on who is behind false flag attacks or are known  to make war by deception.
Look that up for yourselves.

On motorcycle topic, a good deal this whole Middle East disturbance is the result of the interference of the sodomite motorcyclist Lawrence of Arabia and his fantasies.


Don't get me stated on the quality of imported  craftsmanship, too many stories; the amounts of money exported by immigrants to this country, from what ever source, honest toil, or fraud is  frightening, and there is no proper audit.


Ps

Tandon was Indian by the way. But not Muslim.

 I have Indian friends if you want to really offend any of them, assume they are Muslim, or describe them as 'Asian'

PPS

Queen Victorias Who was of german descent.

I would say she was all German and so was her husband, and her descendants, till they got the wind up and changed their name in 1914.

As for that I regard the Germans, along with all the Nordic races as brothers, we are all of Celtic-Anglo-Saxon origin and culture.
That culture is increasingly under threat.

Our ancestors hewed these lands out of the retreating glaciers and wilderness, its ours, we stole it from no-one. We have nowhere else to go.
We have a right to defend it.

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

Hi,
I'm not interested in making anyone look foolish, but myth can be a dangerous thing..when not on a bedrock of truth. Firstly,  the Ice Age ended in Europe as recently as perhaps circa 15,000-10,000 before present depending on where you take a geographical point, parts of SE England were never glaciated, but it would have been far too cold exhibiting vast areas of permafrost no one could have inhabited here till the Ice sheets were well in retreat, slithering back into the Arctic & their Scandinavian heartlands.

According to perceived wisdom, Homo erectus was the only species present for most of this era, the early middle  Pleistocene, that is, this may or may not be true, but ancestors of modern humans appear much later in Palaeolithic times, no Celt, Saxon or Dane ever had to hew any glacial ice, from the last great glaciation across Europe!

35,000 years ago, in mainland Europe Neanderthal & Cro-magnon faced each other  as the glacier/s retreated.

The idea of a Nordic super-race working together is a complete myth in historical terms at least, dreamt up by the dreamers interested in promoting the Third Reich.

The sad fact is that if most people knew Nordic/Norse history better they would know that allegiance was too your Father, family, warrior band & people of kith & kin, what mattered was reputation above all else & that got loyalty & Legend & into Valhalla. Take for example Ragnor Lodbrok & his sons  Ivor, Halfdan, Ubba, being the most famous & fiercest, who came to claim England as their  own, due to English treachery.

Whilst the Angles & Saxons were fighting each other in the 9th century, they started a conflict in 850 leading to the Great Heathen army invasion of 864, the death of Eric Bloodaxe in  954 in Cumbria another turning point, with the first phase ending in ending in 1003 with the invasion of Swein Forkbeard a period of circa 150 years of on & off fighting, then a quite period under Canute.

At the battle of Stamford bridge, Harold Godwinson, who has incidentally a Danish mother, carries out the defeat of  Harold Hadrada in 1066 & consequentially his defeat by William who was in effect by a third generation Norman-French, his ancestry tracing back to Rollo the founder of the Norman state.
Can you see here any cooperation between Angle, Saxon, Dane & Frank all subject peoples to the Nordic myth hierarchy?

I have read Bulwer-Lytton, Otto Rahn,  & lots of that stuff, of more significance is the Spear of destiny by Trevor Ravenscroft, & are probably more widely read on the topic than most.  Hitler etal falsely blamed Germany's ills on the Jews, with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, passed round as truth to stir up hate,  by the way the Iberians were here in Britain, before the Celts .

Having been in Eastern Europe & seen the damage & heard tales relating to the breakup of former Yugoslavia, neighbour killing neighbour, death squads, I consider anyone advocating this type of action now or in the future, are by definition on the fringe of being quite disturbed, there has to be other solutions to racial disharmony than genocide.

Incidentally, T E Lawrence's motorcycles were called Boanerges after the twin Norse Gods of Fire.

This is not a personal attack on anyone, but is here to inform the unwary of truth against myth in propaganda.
Enough is Enough any more talk has to be of Motorcylces.


JBW