Please help identify villiers powerd motorcycle

[wink]

33d6 You are a useful bloke to know, When my scanner works I´ll send you some photos of our James´ from the 60s Which we cut up to make grass bikes from and the 50s as used in trials. Classic MotorCycle february 2011 has an article on Bill Martin from Devon who rode works James & Barnetts and the photos show some differences to normal bikes.  We always used Metal Profiles front forks unless we were desperate. Did you ever look where I posted about Tandons?

[dean66]

Hi there, number from front engine mount is   946 / 32172 D. Any info much appreciated.

Cheers Dean

[esometisse]

this number would make your engine slightly older than the rest of the machine - an 197cc 8E from a 1951 or 1952 FB Falcon 54/55 model
Cheers
Andy

[dean66]

Thanks to all for the info, much appreciated.

regards dean

[33d6]

Absolutely spot on Andy for year and model etc, but a 6E, not an 8E. That was just a slip of the typing finger I'm sure.

And Hi to you, esometisse. I'm out in Oz and things were a little different out here. The go-cart scene started around the mid 50's and the 197cc Villiers engines was ideal for the most popular class. Bikes powered with the 125cc and 150cc engines might survive but not those with the 197 E series. Go-cart racing was extremely popular because old 197 Villiers were so cheap.   On top of this Japanese bikes arrived here well before they did in the UK. The first Hondas arrived in '56 and both Yamaha and Suzuki were well established by 1959 so old British lightweights were very much el cheapo crash'n'bash stuff. No wonder they are thin on the ground nowadays.

Later Metal Profiles forks might have been okay. I've never worked on late examples but their early 50's examples were just variations on the James and Fanny Bee pogo sticks. Sun fitted MP's and I made new sliders for my mates Sun Cyclone so got a good look at them. At least with Fanny Bee and James I could get factory manuals and find out how they came apart before I started but getting info on the Metal Profiles forks was a stinker. Finally we got some hand drawn sketches from the VMCC Library which were a great help. I could then pick what was bodges by the previous owner and what was factory original. Sometimes it's silly what you'll do to get a bike back to original specification. I've learnt my lesson.
Cheers,

[R]

Absolutely spot on Andy for year and model etc, but a 6E, not an 8E. That was just a slip of the typing finger I'm sure.

So that 1952 swingram Model 54 suggestion is looking good...
Interesting about those forks.

http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/francis-barnett/images/Francis-Barnett_1952_advert_p39.jpg

[33d6]

Yep, you certainly picked the frame alright. Fanny Bee introduced their swing arm frame in 1952 and I think they got it pretty right straight off. They didn't muck about with plungers first as did a lot of manufacturers.
Dean should be able to get the right forks for his bike as unlike James, Fanny Bee used the the same style of forks across their range for several years so there should be more of them around. As the years went along they did make a sturdier version but early or later versions will bolt straight in.
Cheers, 

[wink]

I looked on Google Images for Francis Barnett motorcycles and up it came, I clicked on a photo and it was from EMU so I joined EMU so that I could point out to them that several photos were not what they said but they said my Email and password were already in use. It transpires that EMU is another classicmotorcycleforum.
However one of the photos on that site is of a bike with a combined tele/girder sort of fork which I have only ever seen once before ( I have a photo somewhere ) . the tele outers pivot on the bottom crown and the inner sliders come out of the top of the forks to a pair of links like girders. It seems to me that as the front goes down under braking the trail is maintained. Anyone ever seen any and who made them?

[33d6]

That sounds like a late 40's Ambassador. It was their first attempt at making teles and that design only lasted one year, after that they tended to buy in MP's (Metal Profiles) forks. They were already buying in Webb girders for the bike at the bottom of their range. It was an Ambassador of that era and a prewar Excelsior that got my mate and I back into playing with Villiers stuff

[wink]

That confirms it 33d6, the bike they were on was an Ambassador in a museum in the Delamare Forest in Cheshire but that must have been 40 years ago. Was K Don something to do with Ambassador?

[33d6]

Sure was, Kaye Don started up and owned Ambassador. The survival rate of the early girder forked examples is surprisingly high compared to the later models. They're as tough as old boots and just keep on keeping on. My greatest mileage on one was 500 miles over a long weekend. The bike was fine at the end of it but the rider was shattered. Pressed steel girders and a rigid frame do not make for an armchair ride.

Back to the forks you mention, there ia an example floating around New South Wales. It turns up at the odd rally and friends have sent me photos but I've only seen the photos, not the bike.

Cheers,