Excelsior Plunger frame ID

[33d6]

9D engines are easy to identify. The appropriate 9D engine for that James ML tank will have an engine number prefix 539. The postwar 9D engine number is located on the gearbox end plate.

[DELONSTAINWALL]

Hi Team hoping you can identify this Excelsior. Ill like to know what year and model number. I think it is from the 1930s
Thanks!!!!!

[cardan]

Gearbox aside, it's very much the same as one of the Waratah (Excelsior) machines we discussed elsewhere: http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=6172.msg30060#msg30060

Leon

[R]

Yes that gearbox is a curiousity.
You'd rather expect it to have a Burman.

A possible match is this 1936 Pioneer 148cc example.
https://images1.bonhams.com/image?src=Images/live/2010-04/29/8083012-1-1.jpg
Note that your headlamp looks earlier too ?
Anyone got a brochure pic ?

[33d6]

It’s simple Delon, tell us the frame number. Numbers always tell the story. Showing photos and asking for guesses is unnecessary when the frame number tells all.
Don’t be surprised if it’s on the headstock behind the headlamp.

[DELONSTAINWALL]

I will do my best when I get home to provide a frame ID.
Could it be an Excelsior Pioneer 148cc E1? https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/excelsior-1935/Excelsior-1935-148cc-E1-Cat-EML.htm
Thanks for letting me know 33d6.

[DELONSTAINWALL]

Having issues from my end with downloading the pitchers will do when I resolve it. The frame number is 11/619 and the engine number is CUXF. Hope that help 33d6.   

[33d6]

Please read the frame number again. You have misread something somewhere.
The engine number prefix CUXF identifies a Mk 15C which is a single exhaust port economy version of the regular twin port 150cc Mk 12C. They are otherwise identical except for a minor difference in the carburettor jetting.
The single exhaust port affords a cheaper single pipe exhaust system so good for the motorcycle factories and easier for today’s restorers.

[DELONSTAINWALL]

Please see attached photos of frame and engine ID.

[R]

You know, 11/619  and 619/11   read the same (almost) no matter which way up you read them.

Bonhams have this 1936 - as  Frame no. C11091 Engine no CUXF1223

[33d6]

Hi again Delon,
Photos aren’t very helpful. They are never as good as looking at the original.
Excelsior frame numbers of that period always started with a letter. Does it start with a poorly stamped H or a J? I suspect either H1 or J1 but not 11.
Have a very careful look and scrape and clean around the whole number to make sure.
Remember that eventually you will want to get the bike registered so you can ride it on the road and you store up trouble for yourself if you quote a wrong frame number.
Cheers,

[33d6]

Amazing! Bonhams very nearly got it right! That is a not-quite-right 1933 150cc "Empire". The frame number should read C.1.1091 which may sound pedantic but C identifies the year, 1 identifies the particular model in the Excelsior lineup and the final 1091 is the actual frame number. The . or / used on an Excelsior frame number are relevant. That bike came in three versions, the C.1, the C.V.1 and the C.E.1. The differences mainly revolve around the electrics as manufacturers tried to improve on ordinary Villiers direct lighting. A bit diffficult with 1930's electrical gear.
The C.1 with coil ignition and all the Lucas electrical gubbins that entails, C.V.1 with regular Villiers flywheel magneto and direct lighting and finally the C.E.1 with Villiers flywheel magneto ignition but keeping the Lucas dynamo set up of the C.! for lighting only. All weird and wonderful but making the best of the electrics of the day.

On the whole I'd be quite happy to ride the Bonham bike as is but I'd be quietly looking out for the correct Mk12C twin port engine and then fitting an accurate exhaust system. That one is a shocker. In 1933 Excelsior not only fitted the twin port Mk12C but also made their own rather pretty fish tail silencers as well. The C.V.1 version with modern electronics to sort out the lighting issues is the way to go. It's frustrating to see a bike so well done in parts but so sloppy in others.

[DELONSTAINWALL]

A friend of mine wants $1700 if he is to part with it. What should I pay? it is 95% complete.
Thanks Team

[R]

Is this the one you showed just above.



I don't think $1700 is an outrageous asking price, it does look fairly complete-ish.
Especially with that headlamp - that could be worth the asking price ??

Now asking prices are bit like a piece of string, but offer $1699
You've beaten him down, and he got nearly what he asked !
Honour is satisfied.   ??

BUT, do you really need another one though ....

[Rex]

Everyone needs another one. Like guitars, you  can never have too many.